Gen 1 Ignition on Gen 2 - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions For repair, maintaining or modifying discussions related to the newly updated 2008 and beyond, Generation 2 KLR650 Motorcycle.

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post #1 of 38 Old 02-09-2017, 12:40 AM Thread Starter
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Gen 1 Ignition on Gen 2

I've been building a bare-bones harness for the '09. It has been stripped of unnecessary stuff and designed to integrate with the Vapor dash and HID headlights. That project has been on the back burner while I worked on the kick start stuff.

Now it looks like I'll put a Gen 1 ignition in the '09, so the bare bones harness will be modified to accommodate that stuff.

With thanks to Damocles for his help on the Gen 1 vs Gen 2 ignition differences, I think I have a plan. This still needs to be traced out at least two more times, but the scope of the project is set.

I'm going to pay a visit to Bothwell Automotive and see if they can balance a Gen 2 Rotor. I'll give it one shot. If they can I'll modify the Gen 2 rotor for use with the Gen 1 ignition. If not, I'll use the Gen 1 rotor.

Here's my first crack at the modified wiring. Purple goes away, red is added.


For competeness, this is the wiring diagram for all the new Vapor, HID, Turn/Emerg, etc that the harness interfaces with.

Tom

'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used. -Napoleon Bonaparte


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Last edited by Tom Schmitz; 02-09-2017 at 12:48 AM.
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post #2 of 38 Old 02-09-2017, 09:07 AM
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Only cursory examination of truly excellent wiring diagrams, but . . . don't see ENGINE STOP SWITCH logic . . .

Both IGNITION SWITCH and ENGINE STOP SWITCH use GROUNDING of exciter coil lead to CDI as kill mechanism on Generation 1s (vs. opening of + 12 VDC lead to igniter on Generation 2s).

So, ignition switch (and engine stop switch, if any) might bear watching, with trans-generational ignition conversion.
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post #3 of 38 Old 02-09-2017, 09:28 AM Thread Starter
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It is very hard to see on the schematic unless you open the file in a new tab and zoom in.

I've enlarged the section; see if it looks logical to you. The kill switch will work 'backwards', the 'Off' position will be 'Run'. The ignition switch looked OK as-is.

Tom

'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used. -Napoleon Bonaparte


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post #4 of 38 Old 02-09-2017, 11:12 AM Thread Starter
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Eh, not so fast, sport.

The ignition switch might be a problem and the starter button is a problem.

This will require pondering.

Tom

'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used. -Napoleon Bonaparte


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post #5 of 38 Old 02-09-2017, 11:46 AM Thread Starter
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Damocles,

The Gen 2 ignition switch performs the same base functions as the Gen 1 switch. That is, it connects the white 20A B+ to the switched power, brown, when "On" and grounds the igniter when "Off". It does not have the "Park" position and doesn't control the headlight power, etc., but that seems to be no matter. I think it will work as-is.

The starter switch on the Gen 2 takes it's power from the kill switch on the Gen 2. The kill switch is a SPST. The kill switch on the Gen 1 is a DPST and serves to ground the igniter and provide power to the starter switch. In order to avoid diodes, relays, and magic dust I think I need to leave it alone. Thus, I will not have a kill switch because, as you pointed out, the kill switch on the Gen 2 interrupts power to the coil rather than grounding the igniter.

What do you think the effect and ramifications of using the Gen 2 kill switch would be if it were used to interrupt power to the Gen 1 coil?

I can live without a kill switch, but I wonder if I need to lock its position so that it can't be moved, or perhaps go into it and hardwire its function.

There's an extra right-side swtich block around here that I'm going to dissect and see how the internal wiring is accomplished. Might be I could still make it work...

Tom

'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used. -Napoleon Bonaparte


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post #6 of 38 Old 02-09-2017, 12:13 PM
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Didn't know the Generation 2 ignition switch grounds the igniter when OFF; opening the circuit to the coil primary windings was its function, I thought.

Quote:
What do you think the effect and ramifications of using the Gen 2 kill switch would be if it were used to interrupt power to the Gen 1 coil?
My concept (unverified at this moment) is: The Generation 1 ignition coil is never physically "disconnected" from the stator exciter coils through the CDI, which discharges its capacitor from pickup coil pulse; however, the CDI power lead is grounded when the kill switch is in the OFF position (if there IS a kill switch) or the ignition switch is in the OFF position (again, Generation 1 OEM configuration).

You may be able to, "re-purpose" the kill switch to interrupt the circuitry between the CDI and the ignition coil primary windings, but keep in mind you're dealing with voltage determining spark intensity; you'll need a solid, low-resistance connection when the kill switch is in the RUN position.
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post #7 of 38 Old 02-09-2017, 01:07 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
Didn't know the Generation 2 ignition switch grounds the igniter when OFF; opening the circuit to the coil primary windings was its function, I thought....
We have to qualify my statement with "That's the way I'm reading it", which could be wrong.

In the "Off" position the Gen 2 ignition switch connects the B/W from the igniter to chassis ground, the B/Y ground bus wire. Of course, we don't know the functions of the various igniter pins because Denso and KHI hold these close to the vest, but I take that as "grounding the igniter".

I cannot find the right side switch block anywhere in the Shed of Horrors, which is why it is called the Shed of Horrors. I am leaning towards not having a kill switch.

Obviously, I must study this much more...

Tom

'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used. -Napoleon Bonaparte


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post #8 of 38 Old 02-09-2017, 01:37 PM
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A Western Power Sports #57-5012 kill button to fit Yamaha YZ dirt bikes is a nice momentary button for kill or horn. It has about 18-20 inches of 2 wire leads on it.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

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post #9 of 38 Old 02-09-2017, 02:13 PM
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The OEM kill switch, of course, is more-than-momentary . . . yet; truth be told, I have never been in a situation where a kill switch was of critical importance, myself (doesn't mean they don't occur).

Jimmie Lynch, of the internationally-famous Death Dodgers auto thrill show, lectured: When an automobile is upset/overturned with the engine running, a better idea than immediately shutting the motor off, is to let it run, preventing combustible mixture from contact with a hot exhaust manifold, creating a fire (from the days when automobiles had carburetors).

He also said, the BEST tires should go on the REAR wheels, because . . . the driver had some control over a front-tire blowout from the steering wheel; none for the rear tires . . .

Guy had some credibility; had been in LOTS of crashes, for fun and profit!

Jimmie Lynch even took Mr. Wiffle, of, "Don't squeeze the Charmin" fame, for a ride:


I digress. Moderators, delete any or all contamination of the website with clear conscience, if you must!
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Last edited by Damocles; 02-09-2017 at 03:33 PM.
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post #10 of 38 Old 02-15-2017, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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The Gen 1 and Gen 2 coils are different, that we know.

The Gen 2 coil has no marking as to '+' or '-'. The Gen 2 does.

Both coils have a wide tab and a skinny tab. On the Gen 2 the skinny tab is connected to the black wire that goes to the igniter.

Now, it seems obvious and a dumb question, but I have to check.

In the Gen 1 harness is the skinny connector connected to the black wire that goes to the CDI? In other words, is the '-' side of the coil connected to the CDI?

I should think they would be wired the same buuut....

Tom

'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used. -Napoleon Bonaparte


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