KLX 650 Carb Help [Archive] - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum

: KLX 650 Carb Help


razorbackal
05-10-2011, 11:01 AM
Hi All

I am new to the site. I joined after purchasing a 1996 KLX 650. It is really clean, however it has been setting in a barn since 2009. I cleaned the tank, installed new hoses and spark plug. It would run 1-2 seconds then die. I took it to a local shop, where the carb was cleaned, the mechanic told me the bike has an aftermarket exhaust (ITP) so the carb should have a larger jet (44) there was a 38 in it. This thisng is really hard to start when its cold, full choke, then no choke , half choke....all the while hitting a second or two then dieing...about 10 mins of this then it will start. After it warms up starts easy. Also, smells really rich, passenger gets fumigated.
Help a Kawasaki 650 newby....please.

Thanks
Alan

vatrader
05-10-2011, 12:26 PM
Hi Allen, welcome to the forum. Your carburetor, if it is the stock issued carb, is a Keihin CV40, same as the KLR 650's and all the Evo HD motorcycles. Meaning you have a pretty large pool of expertise to draw from.

You may have two common issues to deal with.....a bike that has sat, and "previous owner tweaking". Be patient, it all can be worked out.

razorbackal
05-12-2011, 05:40 PM
Ok I changed the jet from 147 (smelled really rich, made fender black and clothes stink) to the 138 which was in it when I bought it, it ran like crap(with 138)....cutting out at higher RPM. Changed 138 to 142.5 ran really good and didnt have any fuel smell....
However, this thing is a real pain to start when its cold!!! PLEASE HELP
I installed new battery, I have to choke it full then let it in half way numerous times as it hits a few then dies, it usually takes 10 mins of this before it idles on its on. After it runs a little while , it will start up with no effort....but if it cools it is "pain in rear" start procedure all over. Today it was 75 degrees outside and i began the start procedure but it was worse than ever and it ran dwon the battery before fully starting!!
Is there and adjustment on the choke or something someone can tell me about this to help...?

Thanks
Alan

vatrader
05-12-2011, 08:27 PM
Couple of questions.....

Do you know if and when the valve setting was last checked?

Have you disassembled the enricher [choke] to verify that is functioning properly? The lever moving back and forth on the bars isn't an indication the plunger is following suite.

Your hard starting probably isn't related to anything beyond the enriching circuit, if the problem lies in the carburetor. I'd try to focus on one issue at a time. Get the hard starting resolved, then move on to your other circuit jetting.

razorbackal
05-12-2011, 09:21 PM
I dont know wehn the valves were set last.
How do I check the enricher?

Thanks
Alan

vatrader
05-12-2011, 10:56 PM
How many miles on the bike, and did it cold start OK for the mechanic that cleaned the carburetor?

The enricher can be taken out of the carburetor to make sure that the plunger is working properly, it is a simple set up and if you pull it out you will see not much can go wrong with it. It needs to function as in the diagram below. The enricher plunger sets in a plastic housing that can break easier than an egg. I've found choke cables adjusted at the handle bar so that the plunger could not complete it's full range of travel. You could take the plunger out, check for damage and full range of movement with the choke lever.

http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww187/vatrader01/KLR%20mechanical/34cb9a6f.jpg

razorbackal
05-13-2011, 01:00 PM
The bike has 6008 miles currently, according to the previous owner the valves have never been set.
The mechanic started it up after he cleaned the carb, it would start after sveral mins of jocking the choke but yesterday was the worst and after I drove it home it smelled rich again, so maybe it was the choke sticking....?

Thank you,
Alan

vatrader
05-13-2011, 01:18 PM
Certainly a possibility that the choke is not functioning properly. I'm a liitle suspicious of the choke housing being broken, as the bike just had the carb cleaned. Either the carb was removed, or rolled, either situation putting the choke housing at risk. I'd look into that. The plastic nut that holds the enricher in place at the carburetor is a lesson in patience, looking for a place to happen. It's just plastic. You can over come it.

Tight valves will cause hard starting, usually for a hot engine. If the valves have become tight enough, it will be hard to start anytime. Need to put setting the valves next on the agenda. If they're real tight, getting them loosened up again will be like unleashing 15 more horse power.

razorbackal
05-14-2011, 12:13 PM
Ok, the mechanic changed the jet by rolling the carb. I will check the plastic nut.
Next , the valves....I would assume the valves would loosen with use....not tighten...?

Thanks
Alan

vatrader
05-14-2011, 01:52 PM
Rolling the carburetor is what usually breaks the enricher housing, if the enricher was left in place. Did this mechanic get your bike to start cold easily, once he cleaned the carburetor? Was this the reason you had the carb cleaned to begin with?

Valves will get tighter from wear, the opposite one would suppose. When an exhaust valve tightens up to the point where it is not able to fully close, it
retains it's heat, and the valve can burn. If an intake valve tightens
up too much, the air/fuel mix can blow back through the carburetor, creating a hard starting condition, and a gradual loss of power.


http://www.starbacks.ca/~klrdsn/page27.html

http://klr650.carguy.org/shims.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2d-V4udwaA

efigalaxie
05-14-2011, 03:28 PM
Did you either replace or clean the air filter?

razorbackal
05-15-2011, 09:02 AM
When I bought the bike it had been setting in a barn from 3 -4 years. I tried to start it and it wouldnt even try to hit. I removed tank and cleaned it with new gas, installed new hoses, clamps, spark plug and premium gas. It would hit a few then die....(actually what it does now) I tried it numerous times. I verified it had fuel to the carb...I gave it a small shot of start fluid on the air ckleaner and it would fire up...so I surm,ised it wasnt getting fuel...I took it to mechanic, he cleaned carb and changed the jet to the 147. It ran fine but as stated earlier it semlled so rich it would make your clothes smell after riding it and it was still touchy to start. After he worked on it it was still not easy to start but hadnt cooled down totally. Before the last time he worked on it after it was warm it would fire off instantly if it was warm....I havent had a chance to check the choke but I will today.
How often is it required to adjust lash on valves so many miles or depending on use or sound.....?
Is mine different because its a KLX? My fan is on the right...

Thanks for all you great help.
Alan

vatrader
05-15-2011, 11:51 AM
When I bought the bike it had been setting in a barn from 3 -4 years. I tried to start it and it wouldnt even try to hit. I removed tank and cleaned it with new gas, installed new hoses, clamps, spark plug and premium gas. It would hit a few then die....(actually what it does now) I tried it numerous times. I verified it had fuel to the carb...I gave it a small shot of start fluid on the air ckleaner and it would fire up...so I surm,ised it wasnt getting fuel...I took it to mechanic, he cleaned carb and changed the jet to the 147. It ran fine but as stated earlier it semlled so rich it would make your clothes smell after riding it and it was still touchy to start. After he worked on it it was still not easy to start but hadnt cooled down totally. Before the last time he worked on it after it was warm it would fire off instantly if it was warm....I havent had a chance to check the choke but I will today.
How often is it required to adjust lash on valves so many miles or depending on use or sound.....?
Is mine different because its a KLX? My fan is on the right...

Thanks for all you great help.
Alan

A KLX 650 is somewhat different than a KLR 650. You have a narrower head, a different balancer system, two timing chains to our one, more power.

My suggestion would be to REMOVE the carburetor completely, disassenble it and thoroughly clean it. Three times. With three different solvents. Pull every jet, even the hard to get, didn't know they existed jets. Re-assemble. Carefully examine your enricher / choke system, from handlebar into the carburetor housing. If you are getting good air and fuel flow into the carburetor, and the problem persists, I would then look into the valves.

While your head is different from a KLR head, the shim under bucket adjustment is similar. We use the same size shims, and the method of checking the gaps and replacing shims is the same process. According to Ma Kaw, the valves need to be checked and adjusted at 500 miles, and it seems the collective wisdom on the forums recommends checking again around each 5-6,000 miles. Your valve clearances are different than the KLR, and your acceptable specs are exhaust .15-.24mm, Intake .10-.19mm. Conventional wisdom is to set the valves to the high [loose] side. They'll tighten up quick enough. As the intake valves gradually tighten up, the engine becomes harder to start. Hot or cold.

While the "shotgun approach" to troubleshooting is a natural inclination, I'd really suggest you address this one step at a time. I'd hate to see you doing an engine rebuild, just to find you had a cracked carburetor intake boot.

Check your enricher / choke assembly.

razorbackal
05-16-2011, 11:52 AM
Ok
You were spot on. The plastic housing was broken. I have the carb completely disassembled and soaking in chem dip.

To answer an overlooked reply, yes air cleaner was cleaned and oiled.

Trying to locate the housing nut now at local dealers.

Will update later.

Isnt that spark plug a bear to change....need and 18 mm wrench with rubber insert....
Is there a big difference in plug brands...Champion, NGK or Bosch, and preference?

Thanks
Alan

razorbackal
05-16-2011, 12:07 PM
Do you know what the Kawasaki part number is for the enricher housing?

Thanks
Alan

vatrader
05-16-2011, 12:57 PM
KAW part #16012-1055. Available from ronayers.com for $12.35. There are other options than the OEM replacement. Harley Davidson part # 1642495-001 is listed at $4.50 at bikebandit.com. You're local dealer may have this part on the shelf. My local dealership doesn't stock toilet paper.

http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/3/Make/Kawasaki/YearID/36/Year/1995/ModelID/2874/Model/KLX650/GroupID/67006/Group/Carburetor(1_2)

The after market has stepped up to the plate on this item:

http://www.steadengineering.com/main.sc

For a mere $27.50 + shipping, you can display the arrogance that is your due for going "top shelf". You can join the ranks of the chosen few who state " I bought one and never looked back". You'll be the envy of all your friends.

razorbackal
05-16-2011, 08:20 PM
Ok, I went completly through carb let it soak for 4 hours, drove 75 miles (1 way) to get 10 dollar part, got it all back together and she started up, still a lil tedious bu othing like this morning, it wouldnt even hit.
I lubed the choke cable but I am wondering if the choke lever needs adjustment...? The valves...the bike has plenty of power even with two people up long hills, so I maybe they are ok....?
I am getting the starting resolved then I will check them, I ordered ashop manual.
I saw where you talked about adjustment on the carb, all the way in then 2 1/4 turns out, this is the screw behind the bowl on he carb and its upside down...correct or no?

Thanks
Alan

vatrader
05-16-2011, 10:19 PM
http://i718.photobucket.com/albums/ww187/vatrader01/KLR%20mechanical/e96d1e4b.jpg


Click this link:

http://www.klrforum.com/showpost.php?p=68799&postcount=2

In the second image, a yellow arrow is pointing to the idle mix screw tower, when looking at the carburetor from the right side of the bike.

razorbackal
05-17-2011, 06:13 AM
Yep

This is what I thought, I went all the way in then back 2 1/4 turns out, with the pilot jet screw.

Choke or enricher...How far should the choke lever come up (measurement) mayne mine isnt chokin /enriching enough...?

Thanks
Alan

razorbackal
05-17-2011, 08:59 AM
WOW

We are having a cold snap here in Arkansas, i thought this would be a great chance to check out the replaced choke/housing. It was 37 degrees at 5:30,pulled the choke she started right up and idled with choke out!!! To cold to ride to bfast but just rode to work,(since sun is out...it was still a lil cold to ride) she runs perfect...but it still has a rich fuel smell....? Should I turnb the jet into 2 turns, will this help? I have a foam filter, there is a 1" hole drilled into the top of the air box and a pro circuit T4 exhaust (this is the way I got it) it had a 138 jet and it wouldnt run with it in (cut out) so a 142.5 was installed and it runs great but smells rich. I m wondering if the choke situation had an eefect on the 138 cutting out...this bike was originally from CA....mountains maybe he had 138 in for there but it wont work here...i dont know? Does anyone know the factory jet for 96 KLX 650? Is 142.5 to big?

I appreciate all the help and knowledge.
Thank you
Alan

vatrader
05-17-2011, 12:32 PM
You are into trial and error territory. The goal is to find a balance with the modified air intake and modified exhaust. Other than a little time, you have nothing to lose by going back to the 138 jet. The issues you had while it was installed may not of been related to the main jet.

As far as your idle air / fuel mix setting, with a modified screw driver [ read, hacked], slowly turn the screw in until it begins to run rough. Slowly turn the screw out until the engine again idles smoothly. Add approximately 1/8 to turn more.

How saturated with oil is your air filter? You might be running up against some air flow restriction if the carb is drawing through too much oil....I oil the filters, wrap them is shop rags and step on them until I have the bulk of oil squeezed out.

There is a method for testing for too rich / too lean of jetting. It is called the "plug chop method". I am not skilled enough with the method to use it for setting carbs, or explain it in a manner that it could be used by another. Fortunately, there are those here who are capable with the method, and can walk you through it.

razorbackal
05-18-2011, 06:27 PM
Let the trial begin.... I took the carb back off and installed the 138 jet back in. It didnt smell rich but did take a little pep out of it.
I backed the pilot out 1/4.
Slapped on a new set conti tires and new synthetic oil.
She is running really great.
Next is the valve adjustment.....

How do you upload pictures?

Thanks
Alan

vatrader
05-18-2011, 09:26 PM
You'll need to get your post count up past 15 in order to post images. One more post to go as I type this. I'm never sure how savy a person is when they ask how to post images......I'm concerned coming off as "talking down" to someone who may have forgot more about computers and electronics than I know....which covers most everyone under 35 years of age.

I use a free photo image hosting site called photo bucket. It's a place where I can store, sort and categorize my photo images. I can also clean the images up a little, getting rid of the fuzz and red eye. Once you get the photos situated over there, there will be three link options below the photo...

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i163/roscoe22630/pbsample.jpg

Place your cursor in the bottom box, right click the mouse, copy, and paste the link in the forum post you are making.

razorbackal
05-25-2011, 04:59 PM
Ok ....turning the screw in is leanning it out correct...? Im still getting rich fume smell. My GF wont ride she says Im trying to fumigate her. I dont notice but last night she shoved her pullover in my face and it smelled like rich exhuast ....not alot but some. So, Ive turned screwin about a turn....turned in while running rough on hand....HOT jug!

Am i doing it correct?

thanks
Alan