OIL Pressure, How much Ya got? - Page 3 - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
1987 to 2007 Wrenching & Mods For maintaining, repair or modifications of Generation 1 KLR's. 2007 and earlier.

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post #21 of 527 Old 03-13-2013, 07:49 PM Thread Starter
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Other than Watt-man.com and my own threads on the other site, does anybody know of a comprehensive analysis of KLR oil pressure in the main galley- cam banjo- temperature- RPM?
I've looked, but I'm actually a noob, a far as the possibilities with www.
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post #22 of 527 Old 03-13-2013, 10:04 PM
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Is the KLR oil pressure or lack there of a problem? Seems like all the oil related failures I've read about are caused by low oil levels.

I'm not understanding the pressure readings. There's less than (<) 1 psi delivery to the head? Doesn't seem possible. Then the reading is greater than 2 psi? Uh how much?

No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him. 1 Cor 2:9
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post #23 of 527 Old 03-13-2013, 11:54 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spec View Post
Is the KLR oil pressure or lack there of a problem? Seems like all the oil related failures I've read about are caused by low oil levels.

I'm not understanding the pressure readings. There's less than (<) 1 psi delivery to the head? Doesn't seem possible. Then the reading is greater than 2 psi? Uh how much?
Spec,
Q1, Not necessarily, but Willy's wanted more, I felt my '87-A1 needed less.

Q2, I am measuring INSIDE the center of the top banjo bolt, after the SECOND "tiny little hole". The first tiny hole (1/16") is in the first banjo bolt, split two ways, to cams and transmission. (equivilant to some thing greater than 1/32"). All 3 banjo bolts are identical #92002-1170.
Then the cam bearings become four (4) pressure releifs, the transmission gears become six (6) pressure releifs, 3 on each shaft.

Q3-4 Depends on lots of things, oil vis., oil temp., RPM primarily, leakage, etc

It has taken 3 fairly intense years to kind of understand just what I feel is going on inside and why. Kind of using family, friends and all of you as a sounding board. Trying to not lose myself or all of you.

I have another test subject. Next post.
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post #24 of 527 Old 03-14-2013, 12:24 AM Thread Starter
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2009 California Model, Still an OIL BURNER. Thermo-Bobed
35,622 miles, fresh Kawasaki 10W40 Synthetic
Standard jetting (very lean, great MPG - Don't mess with it)

OIL temp f.---Main galley PSI-----Cam Banjo PSI-------RPM
67----------------------------35-------------------9----------2000
112---------------------------9------------------->2---------1100
162---------------------------5-------------------<1---------2000
Do to lean jetting,---------8-------------------->1---------3000
I could not use oil heater-10------------------<2---------4000
to get full temp 194f.------20------------------<3---------5000
169---------------------------28------------------>3---------6000
169---------------------------10------------------1.5---------4000
169---------------------------3--------------------<1---------1200

Time for cool down, then valve adjust.

The 35psi main galley, start up pressure, I attribute to releif valve leakage.
(may never know- Don't mess with it! OK, Jim, relax) good enough for 35,000

The 20 [email protected] and 28 [email protected], I attribute to cooler oil.
Of course, I could be wrong.

Compare these readings to the 2003, NOT MY 1987 -A1, please.
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post #25 of 527 Old 03-14-2013, 08:53 AM
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What I was wanting and still am wanting is more oil flow to the head to make sure it never suffers from any low oil problems. Your head is almost the most valuable part of your engine once you start on the downward path searching for power. So seeing as I have many $$$ invested I want it fed with as much oil as possible, without harming the rest of the system.
I started by opening up the banjo hole sizes a bit at a time. Now I have them drilled out to 1/8" and the internal shaft size has been reemed to match the hole size that is in the head passage way. Then I thought about using built up dams to try and hold more oil around the valve shim area to help with lubrication. I gave up on this thought after thinking and examining the whole area carefully. I mistook the wish for more oil with wanting pressure. It seems there is already enough pressure to get more volume of oil. I can have the flow I want and also keep the lower end very happy with what is in the system pressure wise. As PD has proven with his experiments and with talking to him about his findings. His engine can operate with very low pressure perfectly well.
He has a very good theory for why he is seeking what he is. It does make sense when you discuss this with him. He is very well versed with the internal workings of this engine from the years of ownership and being a dealer who actually works on his and his customers machines. He has practical experience to back up his results and claims. He is very thorough with his experiments to say the least!

We are after different end results but have come to realize we use the same methods to get our end results.

This is semi confusing to some until you want the end result we are striving for......then it becomes clear as to why we are doing what it is we are.

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post #26 of 527 Old 03-14-2013, 09:18 AM
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!quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spec
Is the KLR oil pressure or lack there of a problem? Seems like all the oil related failures I've read about are caused by low oil levels.


I do not mean to criticize or to discourage the research and experimentation in any way, however: I'm unclear also on, "THE STATEMENT OF THE PROBLEM."

Both Clymer and Wattman see the factory oil pressure specification as, in Wattman's words,
Quote:
Occasionally the subject of oil pressure comes up on the forums – the factory spec is 11 to 21 psi at 4000 rpm
when the oil is 194° F.
What consequent problems occur, if Kawasaki's recommended petroleum API service codes, viscosities, and levels are maintained within this criterion?

What are the postulated solutions to the perceived deficiencies?

I'm unclear on the "relief valve" mentioned; is this component the oil filter bypass valve? The part shown on the Bike Bandit Generation 1 fiche as, "16130: Releaf [SIC] valve Assembly?"

This following example is empirical, and only involves one data point from a population of jillions; thus, no general inferences can be drawn: A riding partner will have over 50,000 miles on his '08 KLR650 at the end of this month. If the design has a systemic flaw in its lubrication system, it hasn't bitten him, yet. A forum member approaching 55,000 miles on his '08 KLR650 has the same experience.

Regardless, if such a systemic flaw exists, its identity and correction are welcome
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post #27 of 527 Old 03-14-2013, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post


2009 California Model, Still an OIL BURNER. Thermo-Bobed
35,622 miles, fresh Kawasaki 10W40 Synthetic
Standard jetting (very lean, great MPG - Don't mess with it)

...
pdwestman

Slight hijack...

You're a dealer with an oil burner? Interesing, did you perform the Kawasaki ring replacement fix? What is your theory on the Gen 2 oil consumption?

No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him. 1 Cor 2:9
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post #28 of 527 Old 03-14-2013, 09:50 AM Thread Starter
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Damocles,
Oil pressure releif valve, #16130-1001. Inside the clutch cover, screwed into the main galley, between the test port and oil filter. PROPER operating pressure, between 63-85 PSI.
Not to be confussed with oil filter BYPASS valve, #16156-002. Which is installed thru the filter to prevent crushing of filter by cold oil, on start-up. Which has operating pressures of 9-14 psi, by my tests.
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post #29 of 527 Old 03-14-2013, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spec View Post
Slight hijack...

You're a dealer with an oil burner? Interesing, did you perform the Kawasaki ring replacement fix? What is your theory on the Gen 2 oil consumption?
THAT...is the right question!!!

This is the reasoning behind his research, and he has a good theory for it.

Just because something operates well doesn't mean you can't make it operate better compared to how you got from the factory!

Willys
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post #30 of 527 Old 03-14-2013, 10:20 AM Thread Starter
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Spec,
Jim, did not buy his '09 OIL BURNER from us. Purchased new, in CA, his son still lives there. He used to live and work there, used to own bicycle shop, raced bicycles. He has 2 nephews in my area, both occasional customers.

"No" on the Kawasaki replacement rings. He was around when I was discussing the "flat spot" of #2 ring, on the 2, '09 oil burners we sold.

We may have been the 1st to 'post' the flat spot problem, in Jan-Feb 2010.

Jim, still does not want to spend the $$ on top-end rebuild, and did not want a second set of NEW, potentially, still defective rings in 2009-2010, even if they were FREE. His view, oil is CHEAP!
He still burns about a quart between CA-WY. Adds as needed. Just like we are all supposed to do, with any engine.
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