Klr won't start WITH choke! - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
1987 to 2007 Wrenching & Mods For maintaining, repair or modifications of Generation 1 KLR's. 2007 and earlier.

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post #1 of 15 Old 06-19-2013, 10:40 PM Thread Starter
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Klr won't start WITH choke!

So I've seen posts regarding the choke cable/plunger breaking. I recently took out my carb and put it back in and don't think I broke anything but perhaps I did. The bike won't start with just the choke like it did before, only when the throttle is open with the choke off... Has anyone heard of this happening. I've found plenty of posts where people need the choke on for the bike to run, but not this. Thanks fellas.
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post #2 of 15 Old 06-20-2013, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DurdensVision View Post
So I've seen posts regarding the choke cable/plunger breaking.
While the choke cable end cap, connecting the cable to the carburetor body, is prone to breakage, DurdensVision, I never, never, ever in my life read of the choke cable or plunger breaking (reckon it's possible, even Space Shuttles have failed).

Best I can do for you is show you this diagram of how your choke is supposed to work:



If you're willing to read beyond posts, I highly recommend to you this link to the care and feeding of your carburetor:

http://www.gadgetjq.com/keihin_carb.htm

As it's been said, "Hope this helps."

Last edited by Damocles; 06-20-2013 at 06:01 AM.
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post #3 of 15 Old 06-20-2013, 06:01 AM
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I know you said the carb was clean....but I will bet dollars to donuts it has a small piece of crap stuck in one of the air/fuel passage ways. Soak it in pinesol for 24 hours with a shake halfway through, just the metal parts, no diaphram or slider plus no smaller diaphram off the side of the carb, but everything else. Wash off the pinesol with hot water, then use spray carb cleaner through all air/fuel passage ways to make doubly sure they are clear, then again blast all air/fuel passage ways with compressed air.
Set the needle if a KLX needle kit at 3rd clip or middle slot, use a 145 main jet, set the, damn pilot jet under the cap at 2 1/4 turns out from seated...I hope I have the correct name for it, for some reason it isn't sounding right, sorry, head is a bit cloudy, you know the one I'm talking about.....augh! Check every jet and brass tube for complete cleanliness before installation and no holes plugged. The holes in the top of the carb are fine to leave there. I set all of the bikes here at that setting and they all run perfectly, I'm a stones throw away from Toronto so to speak elevation wise....so if you are the same elevation this setting will work well for you. Make sure your air cleaner is clean and oiled correctly also. Put in a new spark plug, I use Iridium plugs, yes I know not needed but they do work well. The plastic choke thinga ma jig has 4 tangs on it and if you have snapped one it may be causing this issue but I doubt it. There is a alluminium replacement for it from Stead Engineering...it's a bit steep cost wise but it's perfect.
Hope this helps as a starting point from which you can fine tune from.
Plus I hope it's understandable.
Oh you must use stock jet numbers and not Dyna Jet numbers for the main jets etc as they do not use the same scale for their numbering of the jets, just to confuse the rest of us for tuning.....the main jet numbers I gave are the stock jet size numbers not the DJ number .

Willys
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post #4 of 15 Old 06-20-2013, 07:28 AM
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Those symptoms usually mean you're getting to much fuel in the carb. By opening the throttle you reduce the vacuum (reducing fuel flow from idle jet) and add air.

There are a couple things that can do this

1) Carb issues. I'm not sure what you were doing when the carb was out, but if various parts are not assembled correctly you may get excess fuel. I'm thinking missing parts when putting the needles / jets back, or fuel / air mix screw. There may be more [Not screwing in the needles fully?]. Also can be caused by a worn needle valve / seat or having the fuel float beriding low.

2) Fuel from other places. If the choke isn't reinserted correctly it could be letting excess fuel in, however it shouldn't be beyond what you would get with the choke activated. What happened to me is the petcock diaphragm started leaking fuel down the vac tube to the backside of the carb. I replaced it with a Yamaha petcock; jeffsaline on "that other forum" sells a blockoff plate that does the same thing.
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post #5 of 15 Old 06-20-2013, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by willys View Post
I know you said the carb was clean....but I will bet dollars to donuts it has a small piece of crap stuck in one of the air/fuel passage ways. Soak it in pinesol for 24 hours with a shake halfway through, just the metal parts, no diaphram or slider plus no smaller diaphram off the side of the carb, but everything else. Wash off the pinesol with hot water, then use spray carb cleaner through all air/fuel passage ways to make doubly sure they are clear, then again blast all air/fuel passage ways with compressed air.
Set the needle if a KLX needle kit at 3rd clip or middle slot, use a 145 main jet, set the, damn pilot jet under the cap at 2 1/4 turns out from seated...I hope I have the correct name for it, for some reason it isn't sounding right, sorry, head is a bit cloudy, you know the one I'm talking about.....augh! Check every jet and brass tube for complete cleanliness before installation and no holes plugged. The holes in the top of the carb are fine to leave there. I set all of the bikes here at that setting and they all run perfectly, I'm a stones throw away from Toronto so to speak elevation wise....so if you are the same elevation this setting will work well for you. Make sure your air cleaner is clean and oiled correctly also. Put in a new spark plug, I use Iridium plugs, yes I know not needed but they do work well. The plastic choke thinga ma jig has 4 tangs on it and if you have snapped one it may be causing this issue but I doubt it. There is a alluminium replacement for it from Stead Engineering...it's a bit steep cost wise but it's perfect.
Hope this helps as a starting point from which you can fine tune from.
Plus I hope it's understandable.
Oh you must use stock jet numbers and not Dyna Jet numbers for the main jets etc as they do not use the same scale for their numbering of the jets, just to confuse the rest of us for tuning.....the main jet numbers I gave are the stock jet size numbers not the DJ number .
The OP's issue, as I understand it, is: Ineffectiveness of the choke (starting enricher).

The starting enrichment circuit remains totally indenpendent of all the jets, needle settings, pilot screw orientation, etcl., mentioned above.

As the diagram shows, when fully open, the withdrawn starting enricher ("choke") plunger admits both air and fuel into the venturi, providing a fuel-rich starting mixture. Since the OP's bike won't start with the choke lever ON, that ain't happening with his bike.

This "choke" mechanism and its operational function appears ineffective on the OP's bike; notwithstanding the maintenance and adjustment advice offered regarding unrelated carburetor aspects.
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post #6 of 15 Old 06-20-2013, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
The OP's issue, as I understand it, is: Ineffectiveness of the choke (starting enricher).

The starting enrichment circuit remains totally indenpendent of all the jets, needle settings, pilot screw orientation, etcl., mentioned above.

As the diagram shows, when fully open, the withdrawn starting enricher ("choke") plunger admits both air and fuel into the venturi, providing a fuel-rich starting mixture. Since the OP's bike won't start with the choke lever ON, that ain't happening with his bike.

This "choke" mechanism and its operational function appears ineffective on the OP's bike; notwithstanding the maintenance and adjustment advice offered regarding unrelated carburetor aspects.
while this is usually so....... the OP has several threads going, each revealing a little bit more of the story, each opening new possibilities..... but to me mostly leading back to the carb

so far

removed after market exhaust
gas pouring out of carb
fouled plug
swapped jets for possibly much larger
questionable oil level
gas in air box
heavily over oiled air filter
and now choke not working right

i think willys is just trying to get the OP back on track with the changes he has made and problems he has progressively reported through several threads.

if the the choke and cable are installed right and physically working, i'd go back to the cleaning your carb advice.

i can't offer any advice on the re-tuning to get back to a stock set up but willys has and i'm sure others will help too
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post #7 of 15 Old 06-20-2013, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
The OP's issue, as I understand it, is: Ineffectiveness of the choke (starting enricher).

The starting enrichment circuit remains totally indenpendent of all the jets, needle settings, pilot screw orientation, etcl., mentioned above.

As the diagram shows, when fully open, the withdrawn starting enricher ("choke") plunger admits both air and fuel into the venturi, providing a fuel-rich starting mixture. Since the OP's bike won't start with the choke lever ON, that ain't happening with his bike.

This "choke" mechanism and its operational function appears ineffective on the OP's bike; notwithstanding the maintenance and adjustment advice offered regarding unrelated carburetor aspects.


Willys
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post #8 of 15 Old 06-20-2013, 06:27 PM
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if all else fails use more pinesol.

Never ride faster than your angels can fly
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post #9 of 15 Old 06-20-2013, 08:18 PM Thread Starter
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This forum rocks. I went to sleep last night discouraged then woke up to all this advice and direction. I'll let you know how it goes or if I run into any further problems.
I do have a few threads going trying to diagnose the problem after putting the stock muffler back on. The bike is running fine with the exception of the choke now. I'm going to get back in the carb and see what I can find. Thank you for everything.

Last edited by DurdensVision; 06-20-2013 at 08:32 PM. Reason: Adding stuff
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post #10 of 15 Old 06-20-2013, 08:47 PM Thread Starter
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To Willys,

"The holes in the top of the carb are fine to leave there."

I'm going to try and follow this advice, but do you mean the holes at the top of the airbox? I plugged up 5 small holes up there. Should I leave them open?
Also, how would I know if it is indeed a "klx kit?"
Sorry for all the questions but one more... I switched from aftermarket to stock muffler - It sounds like you have experience with this procedure, are you saying this setup seems to always work? Just want to make sure before I start ordering jets.
And I live in Seattle so the elevation is similiar. Thanks.

Last edited by DurdensVision; 06-20-2013 at 08:49 PM. Reason: Adding stuff
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