Running rich - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
1987 to 2007 Wrenching & Mods For maintaining, repair or modifications of Generation 1 KLR's. 2007 and earlier.

 
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:25 AM Thread Starter
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Running rich

Barbie is still running rich after a Dynojet kit was profesionally installed.
The Mech is a long time shop monkey and worked on MX and road bikes for 20 yrs. So I dont doubt his abilities.

things done
_compression and leak down test...100% (said the motor is like new)
-valves adjusted.
-carb cleaned and dynojet kit installed with proper jet (not the common mistake everyone makes with the too big one)
-enricher lever adjusted and nut checked
-vaccuum valve on petcock tested..no leaks

Bike is running much better but still when I give it a blip you can see black smoke,not a lot but still enough to know it isnt running right.


Mech says it could be built up soot but Ive got 100 miles on it and it still does it.
Does anyone have experience or something we're over looking?.

thx
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Old 07-18-2013, 10:42 AM
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I would not rush to judgement. (Hell, I've always wanted to be able to say that...)

The right jet is the one that does what you want it to. Judging mixture by a blip of the throttle can be really misleading.

A lean mixture (~17:1) will give the best fuel economy and lower emissions, while a rich mixture (~13:1) will give the best power and unburned hydrocarbons.

The only real way to know the AFR is with an exhaust analyzer.

I'm betting that if you put in the 'recommended jet' that the mixture is around 13.5:1, plus or minus half a point. After all, DJ is going after performance, so they wouldn't recommend a jet that produced a lean condition.

I would ride the bike for a while and judge the set up based upon rideability, performance, and fuel economy. If the bike strikes a good balance in those three areas, it's good.

If you don't doubt the mechanic's abilities then you should trust his work and trust that he'll make an adjustment for you if you're not happy with the result (after giving it a fair shake-down).

T

Tom [email protected]

“Some days I feel like playing it smooth. Some days I feel like playing it like a waffle iron.” -Philip Marlowe

“'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used.” -Napoleon Bonaparte

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Old 07-18-2013, 11:31 AM
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Agree, exhaust gas analyzer will tell the tale. (Further agree; air/fuel ratio's probably close to optimized for maximum power.)

Poor man's exhaust gas analyzer in the bad ol' days was a THROTTLE-CHOP PLUG READING!

What's THAT??????????

Run bike wide-open throttle a respectable distance; CHOP (i.e., close abruptly) the throttle, hit the kill switch, and coast to a stop. Remove the spark plug, and examine its coloration, in search of the optimum "coffee with cream" color.

With modern-day misguided "green" and "economics interest influenced" additives, I have no idea what a valid plug reading should look like.

The reason for chopping the throttle and killing the engine; the plug reads a SNAPSHOT of the mixture, at the last engine operation. No way a main jet reading would be possible, were the engine allowed to operate at idle, or even mid-range, before the plug reading.

Apologies for rampant nostalgia; now back to your regularly-scheduled program!
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:21 PM
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I know all you guys are information sponges like me so here is some good info on how to read plugs. It is a little more in depth than when we used to just look at the porcelain when we ran high quality leaded gas.... I know some guys that cut the threads off with a dremel to get down to the base of the insulator but I just use a really good light and a magnifying glass. Cutting the plug up just seems a bit OCD. Enjoy!
http://www.pcmforless.com/index.php?...ning&Itemid=56
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Old 07-18-2013, 04:35 PM
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What aircleaner? Condition?

The DJ kit comes with many jets, just knock it back a jet at a time until you get a responce that you do not like or the one you want. Sure it's old school...but it will work with patience. Reading the plug on a KLR now a days isn't as easy as it used to be....why I'm sure others will chime in with pages of reasoning.....

What setting is the pilot jets screw set at? What position is the needle clip set at?

This carb isn't a very complicated carb to play with and tune.

Plus it's free....if your time is that is. You should have all the parts needed already.

I would have a go and write down each adjustment to work to the next stage. OR....you can pay for someone to do it for you. You will appreciate learning afterwards by doing it yourself. Anyone can send it out to get sniffed and pay.....to each their own.

Try one thing, if it gets worse, put it back, try something else.....it isn't rocket science as much as some will want you to think it is. There is one carb, one cylinder and no electrical or mechanical adjustments to make elsewhere.

Not meant to be offensive to you at all.....just motivational.

There are two types of people, people who do and people who pay.

Willys
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:22 PM
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Thanks for the link SBB. Good info there. "Chop and Stop", I've done that on bikes where you can simply pull the plug(s) on the side of the road without removing sidecovers, seats, tanks. Back then, as was said, we were running pure gasoline without any other considerations to account for. Today, I'm also in the camp of being able to monitor the AFR across the entire range from idle to WOT if you really want to get it right.

Gray-haired riders don’t get that way from pure luck.

Unknown
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:10 AM Thread Starter
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@Willys
Yes I agree about doing and paying. I've rebuilt a few carbs on my jeeps and you have no idea how much I appreciate and understand an AMC20 rear diff ,but at 20 an hour why not get someone who is familiar and comfortable with it all and that let's me complete the never ending honeydo list.
So what next? Do I level the deck or build a new walkway?
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:46 AM
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dump the CVK....nuff said. I gave up on the CVK after my big bore and head mods. It was obvious that after getting rid of the airbox and running an open exhaust that I was not getting as much volume as the system would accept. You could go pumper but IMHO it may give you some gains in the lower half of the RPM range but to get real gains over the entire spectrum I wanted more volume. The Lectron is picky, no doubt. It runs heavy at idle, will even load up and want to die if left to it's characteristics. I could have them cut me a custom metering rod but I have learned how to adapt. The 44mm venturi rocks the house when asked to. Yes, it is a finicky carb, takes a while to come to temp and has an erratic idle but I would not go back to the CVK or the CV pumper of which I have both. If I putted a lot I would keep the CVK over the CV pumper but the overall performance of the Lectron puckers the butt. When the power jet kicks in you'd better hang on.

Last edited by SkiBumBrian; 07-19-2013 at 01:08 AM.
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:52 AM
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The FCR mikuni is similar but idles perfectly and comes to temp quickly so to speak. It also is a tricky carb to set up but once it's there...look out!
I too have the old CV carb in a bag and only if and when this carb gives me so much trouble I will go back to it. I don't see that ever happening to tell you the truth! This carb gets the same milage numbers as the CV IF I stay away from all out playing with the wrist. Even when playing it gets good enough numbers not to think about removing it. It maybe $2-$3 a tank difference and in the big scheme of things.....that is no big deal imho.

We ride a KLR after all....a simple thumper with simple parts......low HP, low technology.....don't over complicate it......the differences in tuning won't make it into something it's not. Only changing out the old and bringing in the new , parts that is, will make any significant differences.

Using dynos, A/F sniffers...etc etc...are a huge waste of money.....imho.....this bike is rock stupid simple to tune without these things IF you know how to do it.......it isn't rocket science! Don't make it that....just saying.

If you can get a guy to work on your bike for $20 an hour and you have better things to do, go for it......I would if she was after me......really what is more important.

Willys
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Old 07-19-2013, 08:59 AM
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Not enough air through the Mikuni for me. But we all know that anything you do is better than anything anyone else can do. Did I give you some impression Willys that I even care what you think? I don't need any of your wisdom, if you can call it that.

Last edited by SkiBumBrian; 07-19-2013 at 09:31 AM.
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