Camshaft Oil Pressure, 2hr ride data - Page 2 - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
1987 to 2007 Wrenching & Mods For maintaining, repair or modifications of Generation 1 KLR's. 2007 and earlier.

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post #11 of 78 Old 11-02-2013, 05:27 PM
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I've seen your longwinded arrogant posts over and over on the other klr forum, There is no winning or proving anything "right" to you know it all and it'll just be a back and forth quibble. Trust me that I've got enough experience under my belt on top of working a bit for a race engine builder,ect...No need to "instruct" me on any function or how to's on bike motor, been there done that--literally.

Time to just close my membership, now that the" MAN" is here.
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post #12 of 78 Old 11-02-2013, 05:52 PM
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I wasn't arguing with you. I was agreeing with your point everyone having an opinion on the internet.

As for the over oiling of the cylinder issue, the "How do you know" seemed a fair question. I did not state any disagreement or deny that your assertion was correct. If you reflect on my "long winded and arrogant post" you might notice that what I stated regarding cylinder wall oiling was in support of your assertion.

Again, "How do you know?"

We can deal with the other side of your post if this turns out not to be simply a misunderstanding of intent....
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post #13 of 78 Old 11-02-2013, 10:12 PM Thread Starter
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Normk,
Thank you for joining this conversation.

Meride,
Mellow out, PLEASE. Believe it, or Not, Norm is on our side. I think.

We just have to PROVE our case!

Meride, Ya just have to read a LOT more of Norms postings on klr.net.

Thanks again, Norm.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 85,000+ miles & counting
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post #14 of 78 Old 11-02-2013, 11:10 PM
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If over oiling of the cylinder is the root cause of some of the KLR oil burning issues then let's try to find a means to prove that this is the case or that it is not the case.

What we have here is a possibility, an assertion.

What we do not have is a hypothesis requiring support and certainly not a theory in the scientific sense. We do not have a claim of a mechanism for this effect.

We do know that some KLRs experience oil burning, and from what I infer from pdwestman's posts, neither he nor I have a dog in the fight. My old KLR doesn't use any more oil than did my new one which is to say that both were "normal" KLRs which used little to no oil unless thrashing down the highway at very high RPM. I have no "interest" in proving one way or the other but would feel that the effort resulted in something useful to others. I don't hear that pdwestman's KLR burns oil either so we both appear to be simply willing to seek a solution in support of others as neither of us would appear to benefit either way.

Excessive oil throw-off is a supportable cause of excessive oil consumption in automotive engines, in my direct experience. What is more, it is common knowledge among professional engine rebuilders and automotive machinists. Motorcycle engines using "shell type" bearings must experience the same effects.

One issue which comes immediately to mind and which I attempted to outline in another web thread is that the most frequent cause of excessive oil throw-off from the crankshaft is the result of excessive main bearing oil clearance. Given that the KLR dues not use "shell type" bearings, the immediate case for this cause seems weak.

This does not speak to whether or not it is true.

There, another long winded post. Perhaps I should not bother?

I do have a life outside the web and can even be paid for similar work.... Just trying to contribute to the common good.
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post #15 of 78 Old 11-04-2013, 09:51 PM Thread Starter
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Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lander, Wyoming
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To everybody,
Just in case anybody is uncertain as to, Why?
Why, I have altered my bike and posted for the world to see.

Is because, I Believe that this series of engine does and has always, delivered TOO much oil to the bottom rod bearing and therefore to the cylinder wall, piston and rings.

I do ride at 5500-6500 RPM a lot, in the wide open spaces of the West.
Yes, I've had a citation or two.

Yes, my bike and most other stock KLR's, will use some oil when subjected to such use/abuse.
It's bore and stroke displacement X 8 = 5.208 liters = about 317 CID.
Anybody have a Stock, 318 Dodge, 302 Ford, 305 or 327 Chevy, that would even survive 69,000 miles at that RPM?
Much less, Not burn some oil?

I think, I may have decreased useage some, but it's way to early to say.

But, it seems like I've read hundreds of threads, that the OP wants more oil pressure or a pressure gauge. Why and What he/she wants to do with it, is questionable, to me.
I've tried my best, to safely give them some more.

Where it will do "more good than harm", maybe.

As always, Modify at Our Own Risk.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 85,000+ miles & counting
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post #16 of 78 Old 11-05-2013, 12:08 PM
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Very, very interesting potential, IMO.

The premise that excessive oil consumption at high, sustained RPM certainly fits the pattern of other engines having excessive throw-off from worn main bearings. I've posted experience and testing of this many times on various sites, and also that it is common knowledge in the repair trades.

PDwestman's ...think we could call it a hypothesis although maybe theory could apply as there is supporting data which can be made to make predictions...hypothesis that too much oil might be flooding the oil control might be difficult to prove but it should show trends which should be sufficient.

I absolutely agree that the general quest for more oil pressure is misguided. Ditto adding an oil pressure guage as I only installed one as a means of gathering data and remain convinced that the risk from the possible failure completely negates any benefit.

Appreciate this post as had obviously misunderstood the intent!

Thanks, pd!
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post #17 of 78 Old 11-05-2013, 09:03 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you, Normk.
Your experience and knowledge is, Welcomed, by me.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 85,000+ miles & counting
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post #18 of 78 Old 11-06-2013, 08:03 PM Thread Starter
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I will say at this point to help 'quench' a fire, before it gets out of control.

The 'needle bearing, bottom rod bearing' is 'feed' by pressurized oil. But, IT Does Not "contain" any pressure! Unlike automotive, precision Plain Bearings.

Normk, knows this. His question is "how do we know"? We Don't!

It is a hypothesis of mine! Something I have felt, since I 'flogged My KLR', from Wendover,UT to Monteray, CA and back, in April 1988. Laguna Seca GP Road Races. Biggest gas tank I had.

To Me, IT became a priority to investigate, in the summer of 2009. Because of 2008-2009 Oil Burning KLR650's. There HAD to be MORE to it, than just rings or cylinder hone pattern or 'roundness' of bore or break-in procedure. IMO. ONLY!

I 'feel' I'm on the 'right track'. Only time and mileage on MY bike and a FEW other "Brave Souls", may tell.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 85,000+ miles & counting
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post #19 of 78 Old 11-19-2013, 10:11 PM Thread Starter
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Location: Lander, Wyoming
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BUMP!
Any questions?
I'll try my best, to answer them.
I am not an engineer, just a lowly mechanic, With a Quest.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 85,000+ miles & counting
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post #20 of 78 Old 11-21-2013, 09:51 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 106
What do you think about 5 PSI at the cam at high RPMs? Not an oil consumption issue, but seems low to me - lose a little pressure somewhere, and you're burning cam journals.
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