Camshaft Oil Pressure, 2hr ride data - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
1987 to 2007 Wrenching & Mods For maintaining, repair or modifications of Generation 1 KLR's. 2007 and earlier.

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post #1 of 78 Old 10-28-2013, 09:47 PM Thread Starter
OverDrive
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lander, Wyoming
Posts: 5,346
Arrow Camshaft Oil Pressure, 2hr ride data

For all viewers who have Not followed this oddessey, how I got to this point is in "Oil Pressure, How much Ya got?".

Sorry, I can not do pictures or video. I will do a short review of modifications.

#1 Thermo-Bob, sold by Watt-man.com, Thanks Watt-man

#2 16130-1001, Oil pressure relief valve. Inside the clutch cover, screwed into
Main Oil Galley. Ball seat lapped, spring replaced & modified.

#3 Mouth of oil filter cavity, most of ledge or step, Dremel Tooled from oil inlet port at 5:00 position to 1:00 position. Easier oil flow around Filter media,
IMO only. This is the ONLY mod that can't be cheaply changed back to Stock. But, why would one want to? I've seen aftermarket oil filters Nearly Jammed In.

#4 92150-1641, KLX650 oil line banjo bolt, with 2, 1/8" holes, installed by starter motor.

#5 92150-1641, Installed at cylinder head oil feed.

#6 92153-0627, KLF300 oil line banjo bolt, with only 1, 1/8" hole, installed into transmission oil feed.

#7 92062-1056, KLF300 oil correction nozzle. Solderd or brazed, drill to #43 bit, 2.26mm. Screwed into Bottom Port of Oil Filter Cap.

As Always, Modify at Our Own Risk!

1987 KLR650-A1, 68,852 miles, Well used Kawa. 10W40 petroleum oil, 64F. air temp. Lander, WY. Oct. 27, 2013

Oil Temp F.----Cam PSI----Digital RPM-----Min of Op
----65----------------6---------------1500------------0----------
----68----------------8.25-----------1600------------1----------
----75----------------8.25-----------1700------------2----------
----80----------------7.75-----------1800------------3----------
----87----------------6.5-------------1800------------4---------
----92----------------4---------------1200------------5----------
----125---------------4.5-------------2500-----------10---------
----150---------------5---------------4000-----------15---------cross winds
----160---------------4.75-----------4000------------20--------
----172---------------4.5-------------4000-----------25---------start up mountains
----175---------------5---------------5000------------30-------uphill & headwinds
----192---------------5.5-------------6000------------35-------42f., 7500ft, headwind
----183---------------1.25------------1160-----------37--------25 miles
----175---------------4----------------4000-----------45--------42f. 8000ft
----175---------------4.5?-------------4000----------50--------
----168---------------4.5--------------4000----------55--------Continental Divide 7500ft. South Pass, Strong Headwinds
----176---------------4.5--------------4000----------60--------
----177---------------1.25------------1250-----------63-------55f. 7200ft 46 miles, turn-around.
----192---------------5.25-------------5000----------75-------Tail Winds
----199---------------5.25-------------5500----------80-------
----200---------------5.5--------------6000-----------85-------
----206---------------5.0--------------5500-----------90-------Uphill-tailwind
----206---------------4.75-------------5000-----------95-------Downhill-tailwind
----201---------------4.5--------------4500-----------100------Back in Valley, crosswinds.
----186---------------4-----------------4000-----------105------
----181---------------4.25-------------4000-----------110------
----180---------------4.25-------------4000-----------115------65f.
----183---------------4.75-------------4500-----------120------
----192---------------5-----------------5000-----------125------
----181---------------2.25--------------2500-----------130------
----178---------------1.25--------------1350-----------135------65f.,Riverton, WY 119 miles.

Thank goodness for a NEP cruise control. And a tall tank bag, to write on.
I still need to order the oil analysis kit, but I wanted a full 5000 miles.
And yesterday may have been the last rideable day of the year. 69,003 Smiles.
I think I'm done Now.
Any Questions?
pdwestman

Last edited by Tom Schmitz; 12-03-2015 at 01:44 AM. Reason: 1349 part is obsolete
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post #2 of 78 Old 10-31-2013, 12:48 AM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 18
After rebuilding my '05 klr due to bad crank bearing, the bore measured in good shape so I did a quick hone and new rings( unfortunately use OEM, this was before finding out about the poor design)plus upped the compression. I now have a great running, powerful,rebuilt oil burner(cold startup it smokes faintly when idling high) I know this is because of all that oil being blown onto the bottom of piston and cylinder causing ring flutter. I plan to drill & tap for (hopefully) a main carb jet (drill to 2.5mm) the oil passage going to crank, I already have drilled out the banjo bolt in the head, can plug (or get a new one)one hole in the tranny banjo. Hoping to reduce oil consumption plus improve cam oiling.
Have you tested with 15w or 20w oil ? I generally use 10w here in winter(riding seasons ?) but will switch to 15 or 20w in summer.

Last edited by meride; 10-31-2013 at 12:54 AM.
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post #3 of 78 Old 10-31-2013, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
OverDrive
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lander, Wyoming
Posts: 5,346
Meride,
The Most important Banjo Bolt is the 1st One, by the starter motor! It Feeds the head and tranny.
The 92062-1056 'Oil correction Nozzle' for a KLF300A/B/C series atv and a few Ninjas, is nothing more than a 8mm x 1.25 thread (Set Screw), with a 3mm hole thru the center. But common set screws are Hardened Steel, hard to drill.
Thus, I soldered and re-drilled the 92062-1056. $3.56 retail.
The bottom port (crank port) of the oil filter Cap is easily threaded to that size. And used Blue Loc-Tite.
I do hope this idea, helps a 'Bad Ring' oil burner. That is exactly Why I started this project.
Best of Luck.
pdwestman

ps, No, I have not tested my Modified pressures with any other oil grade.

Last edited by pdwestman; 10-31-2013 at 10:39 AM. Reason: post script
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post #4 of 78 Old 10-31-2013, 11:02 AM Thread Starter
OverDrive
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lander, Wyoming
Posts: 5,346
Meride,
What year did you do your rebuild? The reason I ask, is because in the USA, ALL the '87-07 (-A series) original style rings and pistons were GONE by August 2009!
I guess re-cycled, and up-dated to the -E series '08 and up parts.

The -E series, 3 piece OIL Control Rings have a Narrower Expander than the -A series had. There-fore, did not Fit the -A series Piston. Possible Problem?
pdwestman
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post #5 of 78 Old 10-31-2013, 12:37 PM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 18
I rebuilt it 2 months ago, the rings were boughten from Bike Bandit I believe. My compression is 160-165 when I checked it just a couple weeks ago. I accurately measured the bore for size and it was within spec for roundness ect..., It just has a tint of blue smoke below 45F and if idling 2200 to 2600 from the choke . Stops as soon as idle goes down if I release the choke. Doesn't puff right on startup, just after 5 to 10 second with rpm's. All new valve seals installed. Uses maybe 1 quart to 2000-2500 miles, not real bad.
Ya they were a 3 piece control ring set and original piston. Maybe not kosher??
I would have bored it and gone with Wiseco kit but they don't make one for the klr, and didn't care for a $300 overpriced EM kit, That's just wrong.

Last edited by meride; 10-31-2013 at 12:39 PM.
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post #6 of 78 Old 10-31-2013, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meride View Post
I rebuilt it 2 months ago, the rings were boughten from Bike Bandit I believe.
Uses maybe 1 quart to 2000-2500 miles, not real bad.
Ya they were a 3 piece control ring set and original piston. Maybe not kosher??
I would have bored it and gone with Wiseco kit but they don't make one for the klr, and didn't care for a $300 overpriced EM kit, That's just wrong.
meride,
Just because you ordered from a reputable Co., does not mean you received the correct Rings, for use with the Old -A series piston. Do you have the invoice with Kawasaki part #'s? It is up to the mechanic to confirm proper fit, at point of assembly.

1 pint per 1000 miles, not great, could be a Whole lot worse.

Both OLD style and Newer style "oil control rings" are 3 piece design, expander is different. Rail width, I do Not know. That is what books and tools are for.

Replacement parts for almost all sporting vehicles are Higher than autos.
Wish you the best, Hope I've helped some.
pdwestman
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post #7 of 78 Old 10-31-2013, 11:15 PM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 18
I did it myself and at the time I had my XL motor apart also, so I was measuring all the rings and pistons to see about possible swaps. I found out that the XL rings were the same thickness as the KLR's which the new ones were the same as the old. The deck heights differed so XL or XR-L pistons couldn't be used, but they could be installed on the wrist pin and was the same bore. I am a machinist so measurements are good. Now weather those "new" ones I got were old stock or the new style I don't know, I hadn't heard of the oil burning issue until after the thing was back together and didn't specifically look, set end gap and gap placement on piston according to the factory manual. I do know it was harder(quite a bit actually) to get the XL rings compressed and started into its bore than the klrs. No issues with the XL.

As for price, I got a Wiseco forged piston kit for the XL =$150 +$30 for gaskets, conciderably cheaper than the klr options, but yet a way bigger market I would think.
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post #8 of 78 Old 11-02-2013, 12:04 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Chilliwack, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,481
How do you know the oil burning is "because of all that oil being blown onto the bottom of piston and cylinder causing ring flutter"?

Ring flutter according to the trade useage of the term, is not related to the effects of oil.

Is it possible that some other factor is contributing to the oil consumption?
i.e. break in procedure; oil ring installation....

I see no evidence that this oil gallery pressure measurement provides anything useful but may be missing something....







Quote:
Originally Posted by meride View Post
After rebuilding my '05 klr due to bad crank bearing, the bore measured in good shape so I did a quick hone and new rings( unfortunately use OEM, this was before finding out about the poor design)plus upped the compression. I now have a great running, powerful,rebuilt oil burner(cold startup it smokes faintly when idling high) I know this is because of all that oil being blown onto the bottom of piston and cylinder causing ring flutter. I plan to drill & tap for (hopefully) a main carb jet (drill to 2.5mm) the oil passage going to crank, I already have drilled out the banjo bolt in the head, can plug (or get a new one)one hole in the tranny banjo. Hoping to reduce oil consumption plus improve cam oiling.
Have you tested with 15w or 20w oil ? I generally use 10w here in winter(riding seasons ?) but will switch to 15 or 20w in summer.
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post #9 of 78 Old 11-02-2013, 01:22 PM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 18
Too much oil on the cylinders(known issue with these )causes the rings to "hydroplane" (flutter)on the oil instead of sweeping it .That oil is what gets into the combustion camber, then burnt = oil consumption. everything else to use oil has checked good.

By years of experience and high # of rebuild motors, non failures. I do know assembly is within spec, and symptoms of issue.
Break-in procedure was done correct, again by experience and physically asking several top builders what they recommend, but as all other things on the net, no matter what you do someone else always has a better procedure.
I believe I ended up with some new old stock rings that were the oil burners. I do remember the cardboard not having that freshly packaged look, but was unopened.


As to the oil gallery pressure thing, it's about making something better,oem isn't always best, it may work, but may be improved.

off to rebuild 3 Yamahas 600's.

Last edited by meride; 11-02-2013 at 01:25 PM.
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post #10 of 78 Old 11-02-2013, 04:44 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Chilliwack, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,481
Wasn't questioning whether you know how but rather "how you know". As you stated, someone always knows better. I would add to that that the people who "know" most are generally those who have not done the job but rather read about it or had it done by someone else. These are generally full of opinions but frequently lack more than the ability to parrot back some things they've heard. Oil threads, porting threads are a never ending source of amusement.

I was curious as to how you assessed that there is too much oil thrown onto the KLR cylinder walls?

Many engines depend on oil cooling of the piston with some interesting issues arising from failures to the oil squirt nozzles and other problems which have redirected/misdirected the oil. We saw some interesting oil consumption issues and some piston issues in a series of marine engines which had been adapted for reverse rotation because of mistiming of the oil squirt. Some more recent diesels have had some "interesting" issues arising from the failure of one or more oil squirt nozzle.

This could be an important piece of information, providing that it is reliably verified.

Norm






Quote:
Originally Posted by meride View Post
Too much oil on the cylinders(known issue with these )causes the rings to "hydroplane" (flutter)on the oil instead of sweeping it .That oil is what gets into the combustion camber, then burnt = oil consumption. everything else to use oil has checked good.

By years of experience and high # of rebuild motors, non failures. I do know assembly is within spec, and symptoms of issue.
Break-in procedure was done correct, again by experience and physically asking several top builders what they recommend, but as all other things on the net, no matter what you do someone else always has a better procedure.
I believe I ended up with some new old stock rings that were the oil burners. I do remember the cardboard not having that freshly packaged look, but was unopened.


As to the oil gallery pressure thing, it's about making something better,oem isn't always best, it may work, but may be improved.

off to rebuild 3 Yamahas 600's.
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