1st Gen KLR LED turn signal relay help - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
1987 to 2007 Wrenching & Mods For maintaining, repair or modifications of Generation 1 KLR's. 2007 and earlier.

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post #1 of 13 Old 08-05-2014, 07:07 PM Thread Starter
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1st Gen KLR LED turn signal relay help

I have an '02 KLR. I decided to swap over all the turn signals to LED signals. I knew I would need to replace the flasher 'relay' to one that would work with LED's.

I have installed and wired in the new LED lights. I ordered the LED Flasher Relay from Lockhart Phillips. It's listed as fitting Kawasaki motorcycles. I quickly discover that the LP relay has a 'flat' connector whereas the KLR has a two pronged connector at a 90 degree angle from each other.

I decide I wanted to keep the stock connector so I ordered a LED flasher relay from Amazon that is stated to be for 12V and motorcycle systems. The connector appeared to fit the oem KLR 90 degree connector.

I installed the relay from Amazon today and the lights do not flash properly. They are dim and all 4 stay illuminated continuously.

I then decided, "F-it" and cut off the oem connector and the LP Relay connector and wire them together with Posi-Lock connectors. I verified the correct 12V and Ground wires and spliced the relay in accordingly. Now the LED turn signals are the proper brightness, but all 4 flash at the proper speed when either the left or right turn signal is engaged via the handlebar switch.

Can anyone help me figure out what's going on here? I need the correct Left or Right set of signals to flash when that side is connected. Help. :

Edited to remove the URL links and embedded pictures of the relays I bought, since I'm not allowed to post URLs to other sites until after I post 15 times.
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post #2 of 13 Old 08-05-2014, 07:23 PM
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Put the links up; the specific flasher(s) may be key to the problem and knowing exactly what they are may help in figuring out what's messed up. Bodge the link (insert a space in the http or www like this ht tp://www.amazon.com/Signal-Flasher-Blinker-Motorcycle-Indicator/dp/B00CMO3V0S) if you have to and we'll fix it.

For example,


says that one is required for each indicator.

Norm is the grandmasterjammer of LED turn signals. Hopefully he'll see this.

Tom

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Last edited by Tom Schmitz; 08-05-2014 at 07:26 PM.
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post #3 of 13 Old 08-05-2014, 07:44 PM
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You might want to read this thread. He talks about the same problem and how he fixed it.

Tom
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On the way downtown I stopped at a bar and had a couple of double Scotches. They didn't do me any good. All they did was make me think of Silver-Wig, and I never saw her again. -Philip Marlowe

'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used. -Napoleon Bonaparte

Sting like a butterfly.
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post #4 of 13 Old 08-06-2014, 04:24 PM
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Remove the dash indicator bulb. The problem is the way the indicator is connected to allow the single bulb to serve to indicate flashing in either direction.

The signals obtain power from the ignition switch to the flasher unit which is common to both sides. from the flasher unit, the circuit goes to the center of the right/left turn signal switch. When the signal switch selects one side to flash, it simply connects the circuit from the signal flasher to the selected side lights.

Each side has two signal bulbs, front & rear, which are powered from the circuit leading from that side's signal switch contact. The bulbs are in parallel which means that one can remove or burn out one bulb but the other will still operate because it has it's own path to ground. Depending on the flasher unit installed, the one bulb may not flash or flash at the correct rate because the stock flasher requires a certain current flow, equal to two bulbs.

When one side is flashing, the other side is disconnected so the signal indicator bulb is simply connected between the two sides. The indicator bulb is a tiny bulb while the turn signal bulbs are quite large. When the signal is operating to one side, the indicator is powered from that side and current flow passes through the tiny indicator bulb, then splits and grounds through the two big turn signal bulbs.

One can measure a small voltage drop from the indicator bulb current passing through the signal bulbs but the size of the bulbs is so different that the brightness of the indicator is hardly affected by having to pass through the resistance of the two big signal bulbs. One can prove this to oneself by simply removing the signal bulbs from one side. The other side will still flash normally but the dash indicator will not flash because it has no ground.

Installing LED into both front & rear signals creates almost exactly the same problem as removing the bulbs from the not flashing side. The resistance of the LED on the not flashing side is so great that there isn't enough current flow to light the dash indicator bulb. In fact, the dash bulb has such low resistance/is so big compared with the LED current flow that it allows the not flashing side to be powered through the dash bulb.

That's why I began by advising removal of the dash indicator bulb.

If you can live without the dash indicator, you're done.
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post #5 of 13 Old 08-06-2014, 04:33 PM
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There's another aspect of this which you might wish to consider. If you install a switch to connect the right and left signals together, flipping the switch off has your signals operate as normal. Flipping the switch on connects the two sides together giving you 4-way hazard flashers when either direction is signalled. I use this system on my bikes frequently.

Let's say that you wish to retain the dash indicator bulb in operation, two popular solutions:

1) Install a resistor in parallel (signal light wire to ground) with the signals on each side. This adds enough current flow to allow the dash indicator to function without powering the other side through the dash indicator bulb. People also use this system to allow use of a stock type flasher unit. Works but, frankly, I'd be embarrassed to use this solution. Of course electrical systems were my trade specialty for 40+ years to the context is different. Look at some of the carpentry I do and likely the shoe is on the other foot. ;-)

2) Install a LED rated (not load triggered) flasher as you have done, then use a pair of diodes to provide the connection, one from each side to the indicator bulb. In that case one can use an LED in the dash also. An LED as the indicator will work without the diodes, can be plugged in place of the indicator bulb but because LED are polarity sensitive it will only indicate in one direction.

If you don't see what you need from the links, post back or PM and we can walk you through. It's a bit confusing the first time because there are so many factors but after you go through once you will have it nailed.
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post #6 of 13 Old 08-06-2014, 06:02 PM
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Another solution to the both-sides-blinking problem would be to use a LED indicator bulb. Its much higher resistance will allow it to work with LED signal bulbs just like the incandescent indicator bulb works with incandescent bulbs.
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post #7 of 13 Old 08-06-2014, 07:10 PM
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Do you know of a dual polarity indicator bulb? LED are polar so using an LED without a diode bridge will only allow it to flash one way. I haven't looked for a dual polarity one but it would be handier than doing modifications.



Feel silly for not looking.




Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMotor View Post
Another solution to the both-sides-blinking problem would be to use a LED indicator bulb. Its much higher resistance will allow it to work with LED signal bulbs just like the incandescent indicator bulb works with incandescent bulbs.
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post #8 of 13 Old 08-06-2014, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Normk View Post
Do you know of a dual polarity indicator bulb? LED are polar so using an LED without a diode bridge will only allow it to flash one way. I haven't looked for a dual polarity one but it would be handier than doing modifications.



Feel silly for not looking.
My KLR is a gen2 and when I replaced all the dash bulbs, I used a 194 wedge base non-polarized green LED like the 194 LED Bulb - 4 LED Wedge Base here.
http://www.superbrightleds.com/cat/i...cluster-gauge/

I have not needed to convert to LED turn signal bulbs since I apparently don't make very many turns and the bulbs last for ever, but others have told me that the LED dash indicator solved the problem of all four LED signals flashing.
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post #9 of 13 Old 08-06-2014, 10:53 PM
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I will hang onto the link. I usually install 48 LED panels into the front signals and leave the stock rear bulbs. This allows the stock indicator bulb to function as normal and the incandescent bulbs in the rear provide sufficient load to act as ground for the front panels.

The panels are wired to be always on and grounded to the "hot" signal light wire on their own side. In this way the rears flash as normal but the front are on excepting when flashing to indicate a turn. It is legal to show an amber/yellow running light forward but not to the rear. I prefer to have amber turn signals to the rear rather than red so this system works well.
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post #10 of 13 Old 08-07-2014, 05:44 AM
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I tried to install LED turn signals and all 4 lights came on at the same time.
Then I read the rest of the thread on how to install LED turn signals and changed all the dash lights to LEDs also.
http://www.klrforum.com/showthread.p...4996#post74996
While all I needed to change was the indicator bulb I figured if I was already changing one bulb I might as well do the whole bike.
As soon as I can find some good bright and reliable LED H7 Headlights they will also get changed.

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