SV650 caliper question - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
1987 to 2007 Wrenching & Mods For maintaining, repair or modifications of Generation 1 KLR's. 2007 and earlier.

 4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 17 Old 02-16-2016, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear
 
bsklr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 94
SV650 caliper question

I looked back 200 threads in this section and didn't find much on this, and my searches didn't reveal something that might yield an answer...

I started the front brake improvement process on my '06 by switching to a stainless brake line. 18 ft-lb on the banjo bolts. Honestly, didn't notice much difference. Put some time on that.

Got the EBC 320 semi-float rotor, used the OEM caliper with the EBC adapter and kept the OEM Master Cylinder. That was a big improvement. Enough for some. Blue Loctite and 16.5 ft-lb on the hub bolts. The mounting bolts that came with the EBC kit were obscenely long and I had to cut them down to lie flush with the back of the bracket. Put some time on that set-up.





Looking for further improvement, got the Eagle Mike stainless steel adapter for an SV650 caliper (***** & came with SS stand-off washers to compensate for the shoulders on the SV bracket, and SV bracket mounting cap bolts — drilled the caliper carrier threads out with a 25/64th bit for thread removal to create clearance for the cap bolts), and installed that. 17.5 ft-lb on the mounting bolts. I didn't have to grind down the allen/cap bolts that came with the EM adapter as they cleared the stainless drive buttons with only the chamfer showing through, although EM also shipped shim washers for under the bolt heads as well--for now, I'm letting the bolt nubs (chamfer) hang out (but I'll carry the washers around for awhile.)





Back together, bad weather, no test yet, but one concern...

The SV650 caliper has a greater fluid capacity when compared to the KLR650 OEM caliper. The initial bleed went well, I think, and I tied down the lever to the hand grip over night to squeeze any bubbles. While the brake pads come to lock using the OEM master cylinder, that happens a hair short of the hand grip (not enough room for a finger.) Pads start significant gripping with the brake lever is only 1/2 inch from the throttle cable housing and at full grip, the lever touches the throttle cable housing. This is not confidence inspiring or comfortable. I'm looking for a 1 inch pull on the brake lever and not a 2.5" pull from start to maximum hand pressure and no sudden lock up.

Barkbusters on the handle bars.

I may try removing the caliper and rotating until the banjo bolt is up to see if I can find air— though the position of the bleed screw should obviate that. Hmmm—I did this alone, and it could have sucked air—I'll bleed again. The feel isn't "spongy" that I can tell, but the lever travel is too long. While the dime mod is my next step, I don't want to introduce drag and I'm wondering if there is a better master cylinder to install.

I'm thinking I would need more volume with less travel but don't want to reduce pressure at the caliper nor create a "wooden" feel.

Troubleshooting or Master Cylinder suggestions?
bsklr is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 17 Old 02-16-2016, 02:08 PM
5th Gear
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Kelowna, B.C.
Posts: 2,826
You don't need a different master; I've done this on both my Gen1's with stellar results.

1) you may still have air; keep bleeding

2) do the "dime mod" it's cheap even if you use an american dime :-).....lever is moved outward. Put some grease on the bore and dime so it all works smoothly.

I have the exact same setup as you; IBC rotor, EM adaptor, SV caliper, SS line and OEM master and the improvement is HUGE. Finally decent brakes and quite a bit better than a stock Gen2 too.

My money is on you still having air in the system but do the dime mod anyway; you'll like it. I use a vacuum bleeder.

2 cents,
Dave
DPelletier is online now  
post #3 of 17 Old 02-16-2016, 03:40 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear
 
bsklr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
You don't need a different master; I've done this on both my Gen1's with stellar results.

1) you may still have air; keep bleeding

2) do the "dime mod" it's cheap even if you use an american dime :-).....lever is moved outward. Put some grease on the bore and dime so it all works smoothly.

I have the exact same setup as you; IBC rotor, EM adaptor, SV caliper, SS line and OEM master and the improvement is HUGE. Finally decent brakes and quite a bit better than a stock Gen2 too.

My money is on you still having air in the system but do the dime mod anyway; you'll like it. I use a vacuum bleeder.

2 cents,
Dave
Well, Dave, you were right. Bleeding again has resulted in plenty of room for fingers and glove at maximum pull.

In my defense, it was late at night, and I was suspecting I messed up, but your call caused me to actually pause other work and redo the bleed.



I'm still a bit disappointed with the length of the pull, but maybe I'll get used to that. I'll tie off the lever again and see what happens.

Dime mod next.
bsklr is offline  
 
post #4 of 17 Old 02-17-2016, 09:43 AM
5th Gear
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Kelowna, B.C.
Posts: 2,826
No problem. :-)

I was also disappointed in the length of pull so tried the dime mod before going down the road of other masters and/or adjustable levers and I was pleasantly surprised; the dime put the lever in the perfect place for me and there was no noticeable change in feel or extra drag. I think you'll like it ......plus .....it's 2 minutes and 10 cents so if you don't, no big deal.

People have tried other masters with varying degrees of success: many find the feel off or "wooden". I'm really glad I stuck with the stocker; most masters from street bikes have longer levers that interfere with the handguards and I'm anal in the fact I like my clutch and brake levers to be identical.

If a person was hung up on a master cylinder swap, the Ninja 650 is a popular one though, again, many have complained of the feel. I have a ninja master in my parts bucket but after dialing in my setup using the OEM master, I couldn't even muster the energy to try it. I friend raves about the CBR1000 master he used but since he swapped the master before using the SV caliper, he has no basis of comparison to the SV/OEM combo.

I'm ecstatic with my new brakes; I figure it's tied for #1 biggest improvement to a Gen1 KLR with my Cogent suspension. The two things literally transform the bike.

Cheers,
Dave
DPelletier is online now  
post #5 of 17 Old 02-17-2016, 01:59 PM
Moderator
 
klr4evr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Fort Sask , Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,560
Garage
Send a message via Skype™ to klr4evr
What did you guys do with the stainless break line at the handlebars. The OEM clips don't fit it obviously. I've had a stainless line but have not been motivated to put it on.

My Kaw Barn - 2004 KLR, 2006 Concours (sold), 1997 Bayou 400.

"It's a friggen motorcycle, it's not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you shit your pants every now and then. "

<--- Please fill in the 'Location' on your personal profile page. User CP/Edit Your Details

This information makes it much easier for other members to answer/comment on your posts.
klr4evr is offline  
post #6 of 17 Old 02-17-2016, 02:22 PM
5th Gear
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Kelowna, B.C.
Posts: 2,826
If you're talking about that little plastic clip on the crossbar, you don't need it.



Cheers,
Dave
DPelletier is online now  
post #7 of 17 Old 02-17-2016, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear
 
bsklr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by klr4evr View Post
What did you guys do with the stainless break line at the handlebars. The OEM clips don't fit it obviously. I've had a stainless line but have not been motivated to put it on.
You can see in the last picture of the first post in this thread what I did with the clamp on the fork lower. A piece of rubber heater hose as a sleeve around the brake line made it thick enough to be held by the clamp. I just hung the SS line in those clips on the cross bar and most of the time they hang in there. Once in a while the line slips out, but I haven't lost the clips and that's been for a few years. Dave is right; the SS brake line doesn't require much support and you can get by without the crossbar clips if you want.

I refresh my brake fluid about every 2-3 years, and the difference can be noticed. Next time you refresh your brake fluid, change the line.

I think the biggest difference is in moving from the stock 260mm rotor to an after-market 320 mm rotor even with the OEM caliper. The SV650 caliper was originally mounted to a 310 mm rotor and the brake pads are shaped such that they match to the larger rotor better than the OEM caliper brake pads (and they have a larger sweep area.)

...but the point I'm trying to get to is that any one of these, now proven, modifications (including the SS brake lines) have contributed to a better Gen I braking system in an additive way. Each mod (see the list in DPelletier's post) has resulted in an improvement. That's been verified by a number of people who have made the modifications one step at a time.

HSHIKER650 did some analysis and created some tables that compare the performance characteristics of modifications made and some that were proposed. The numbers support the value of the modifications.

PS., strapping down the lever overnight after bleeding my front brake system again resulted in even better feel at the lever. I feel no need, now, to do the dime mod, but now I feel like it might be icing on the cake, so it's gonna happen.
bsklr is offline  
post #8 of 17 Old 02-18-2016, 02:36 PM
Moderator
 
klr4evr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Fort Sask , Alberta, Canada
Posts: 3,560
Garage
Send a message via Skype™ to klr4evr
I see that Normk has the 7˘ mod on his lever having used a Canadian dime.
Normk likes this.

My Kaw Barn - 2004 KLR, 2006 Concours (sold), 1997 Bayou 400.

"It's a friggen motorcycle, it's not supposed to be comfortable, quiet or safe. The wind noise is supposed to hurt your ears, the seat should be hard and riding it should make you shit your pants every now and then. "

<--- Please fill in the 'Location' on your personal profile page. User CP/Edit Your Details

This information makes it much easier for other members to answer/comment on your posts.
klr4evr is offline  
post #9 of 17 Old 02-18-2016, 04:05 PM
4th Gear
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Chilliwack, BC, Canada
Posts: 1,481
It actually cost me $0.21 because I used two dimes and had to give one to my buddy Mike to compare with his US dimes. The project costs vastly exceeded budget. :-)


Quote:
Originally Posted by klr4evr View Post
I see that Normk has the 7˘ mod on his lever having used a Canadian dime.
joekidd likes this.
Normk is offline  
post #10 of 17 Old 02-20-2016, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
1st Gear
 
bsklr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: South Eastern PA
Posts: 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Normk View Post
One thought regarding tying of the brake lever in order to improve braking:
This technique only works when there is air in the system since it acts by increasing the solubility of the air in brake fluid. Everyone will recall from physics that the solubility of a gas in a liquid increases with pressure. That said, I consider it to be good practice to bleed out the fluid after the air has been dissolved in order to remove the fluid which contains air. I don't know of cases in which the air has come out of solution resulting in a spongy lever again but, especially for someone else's bike, see no reason not to avoid the potential...
Thanks Norm,

Is that true solubility (molecular level dissolution) or just a reduction in bubble size (a suspension)? You seem to be suggesting a colloid. I can only relate my own experience which is as follows:

If the amount of air left in the system is of any large significance, then bleeding correctly is the only effective solution.

Once I get the reaction from the system, after bleeding, which seems to have been effective, if I then tie off the lever overnight, the result sometimes seems to be a very, very slight increase in air left in the MC reservoir which is subsequently topped off following removal of the ties. The diaphragm/gasket under the reservoir lid would seem to always trap some very small bit of air; the procedure results in an increase (likely immeasurable on a practical basis) in that volume.

Any residual air in the brake reservoir is far above the piston chamber (bore) inlet port. At the moment there is a very, very tiny bubble (<1/16") trapped in the bezel at the top of the reservoir sight glass.

After my being satisfied with the results, over the short term (1-12 months), I have not noticed any degradation in braking performance. At around 24 months, bleeding with new brake fluid seems to improve response though the response at that time, prior to bleeding, has never seemed life threatening.

I have done no scientific measurement of this (nor do I intend to.)

With my set up, I can easily make the tires chirp on macadam on a 60°F day. I'll be the only one riding my bike.

Last edited by bsklr; 02-20-2016 at 10:36 AM.
bsklr is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Front Caliper..Red Alert moriver 2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions 11 04-06-2013 11:41 PM
Suzuki SV650 Savage Other Bikes 18 11-03-2012 07:07 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome