Digging into new-to-us 2004 KLR w/ ~55k on it - metal shavings and "grabbing" in first gear - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
1987 to 2007 Wrenching & Mods For maintaining, repair or modifications of Generation 1 KLR's. 2007 and earlier.

 3Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 33 Old 08-14-2018, 01:38 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Winston Salem, NC
Posts: 20
Digging into new-to-us 2004 KLR w/ ~55k on it - metal shavings and "grabbing" in first gear

Hi all - I've posted this a few places but haven't had a lot of response yet.

I've had a gen2 KLR for a while and we bought for cheap an '04 for my wife with ~55k miles so I could have something to learn to wrench on, and she could have a learner bike that could take some abuse. In general the bike rides great and PO said he did the Doo replacement. He had also installed the DJ stage 1 jet kit and said he'd done a carb clean shortly before he sold it to us. He also had a new set of EBC clutch plates/springs he'd thought about installing. The bike also had a hydrolic clutch that had a small leak so I went back to the cable.

With that background, the bike has always felt weird in first gear. It's not lugging, but it's not smooth while letting the clutch lever out while accelerating in first gear. It's hard to say exactly what it feels like - almost like it sporadically loses the gear, or maybe something is grabbing - in general, it feels like it "chugs". I figured since we had new plates I could crack the right case and have a look at the clutch basket as a starting place. The steels and friction plates looked okay but I threw the new ones in, and also added the new springs. There's a very small amount of play around the basket but I've read that's to be expected? To fast forward a bit - after I buttoned things back up, I couldn't get the clutch to disengage and have found others to have a problem with the EBC springs (they wouldn't compress as far as the stock springs and that seemed to be the case for me), so I opened it back up and put the old springs back in, which put me back to square 1.

BUT, I found a good deal of metal shavings in the case - both at the bottom of the case and trapped in the screen - and a more than expected amount of fine flakes in the oil. The metal in the case included a good number of long strips or ribbons, and they were all magnetic (the one in the picture is ~.5-.75 inches). Plus there was what looked a little bit like old gasket caught in the screen. I carefully cleaned all of this out, but when I started the bike back up again, it sounds like something was caught somewhere in the engine, making a metal-on-metal squeeling noise that went away after a few seconds.

At this point I've walked away for a few days, but was hoping someone could point me in the right direction for diagnosing (1) what is causing this chugging; and (2) where the metal shavings could be coming from. Could the chug be carb-related? Could it be related to the spark plug? I will eventually get to each of these things, but I'd like to have a list of priorities, since I can only work on the thing for a few hours at a time!

Other note - I don't hear anything that sounds like the timing chain in the left case, though I haven't opened that side up yet. Oh, and there were wear spots on the clutch basket, but they weren't significant enough to feel with my fingers. Could that cause the plates to catch?

jsnfng is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 33 Old 08-14-2018, 02:22 PM
Pretty in Pink, dunno why
 
Tom Schmitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 7,570
Garage
You have a number of issues, but the one that most concerns me is the metal chunks. I can not identify the piece you have pictured, but more pictures would be helpful. By seeing all the pieces we might be able to identify what it is from. Until we can try and identify it all that will happen is that horrible and depressing thoughts will run through our heads.

Briefly, on your other issues:

I would suspect the Dyno Jet kit. These are sometimes set up to be stupid-rich and could cause the chugging problem because the idle mixture is way too rich. The rest of the mixture is way too rich, too, but there is enough airflow to deal with it at a higher RPM.

Do not worry about bits and pieces of a gasket, RTV, etc in the screen. This is common and that is what it is there for. It has caught up 55k miles of crappage from the previous owners' wrenching.

KLR clutches are tough and the best parts to put in them are OEM parts, but they usually last forever. You've done no harm by putting the EBC fibers in, though. Strange that the springs didn't work, but not unheard of. I prefer Barnett or OEM.

If the clutch is at fault on the grabbing it could be that there are grooves worn in the fingers. These can be dressed down, but pictures would be required to see if it is really excessive. You say they don't catch on your finger, which would lead me to believe they are not a problem. I know my clutch hub has some wear, but it doesn't make the clutch grab badly. One of the best mods to the KLR clutch is to install an extended clutch are from Twin Headlight Earnie. Makes the clutch pull easier and increases the friction zone at the lever, improving feel. Put this on the back burner for later. https://www.souperdoo.com/stuff%20th...this-years-ago

Flakes in the oil, or glitter, is usually a sign that the balancer chain is eating the case. Here you need to verify that the flakes are aluminum and not steel. If all or most of the glitter sticks to a magnet then there is something more serious going on. Steel things don't usually turn to glitter or flakes, they show up as larger pieces, such as the one picture. Something goes bang, gets caught up and spit out into the bottom of the engine. Glitter is usually aluminum from a chain wearing on the case, most commonly the balancer chain.

Let us know!

Tom [email protected]

“She went out slowly. The way she did it hadn’t been learned at business college.” -Philip Marlowe

“'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used.” -Napoleon Bonaparte


Sting like a butterfly.
Tom Schmitz is offline  
post #3 of 33 Old 08-14-2018, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Winston Salem, NC
Posts: 20
Tom, you're a hero - the most calm and thorough information I've received on this!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Schmitz View Post
You have a number of issues, but the one that most concerns me is the metal chunks. I can not identify the piece you have pictured, but more pictures would be helpful. By seeing all the pieces we might be able to identify what it is from. Until we can try and identify it all that will happen is that horrible and depressing thoughts will run through our heads.
A bunch of them were accidentally tossed and this was the one I could find in the dark - I'll try to dig around some more, but they all looked a lot like this - long and roughly that same width. Hopefully I can dig out a few more from my bench to post tonight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Schmitz View Post
I would suspect the Dyno Jet kit. These are sometimes set up to be stupid-rich and could cause the chugging problem because the idle mixture is way too rich. The rest of the mixture is way too rich, too, but there is enough airflow to deal with it at a higher RPM.
I'm glad you said this - he gave me a baggy with a handful of jets in it, but I'm not confident I can dig through everything. I'd post a link, but I'm too new here...anyway, would a carb rebuild kit like the Shindy sold on RMATV put me in the right world?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Schmitz View Post
Flakes in the oil, or glitter, is usually a sign that the balancer chain is eating the case. Here you need to verify that the flakes are aluminum and not steel. If all or most of the glitter sticks to a magnet then there is something more serious going on. Steel things don't usually turn to glitter or flakes, they show up as larger pieces, such as the one picture. Something goes bang, gets caught up and spit out into the bottom of the engine. Glitter is usually aluminum from a chain wearing on the case, most commonly the balancer chain.
I'm not sure if this is good or bad (maybe it's just whatever steel bits getting beat to shards?), but it does seem like a good bit of the glitter is steel - I put a magnetic drain plug in there and it came out looking like it had an afro.

I'll also be throwing on that extended arm - that's a great idea.

Thanks again Tom
jsnfng is offline  
 
post #4 of 33 Old 08-14-2018, 03:16 PM
4th Gear
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Kelowna, B.C.
Posts: 2,342
Tom has you covered with his comprehensive and thoughtful post (as usual).

I was going to echo his comments on the DJ kit; the recommendations therein are WAY too rich. The good news is the needle is OK; just use the jetting instructions for the KLX kit. I have the KLX kit in one KLR and the DJ needle with the same jetting in the other....they are functionally equivalent.

If you want a baseline to lean it out; try a 142.5 KH main on the second clip (no shims under), stock pilot and 2 turns on the fuel screw.....make sure you've pulled the airbox snorkle.

.....Other than that, all I can say is that I don't like the looks of that metal bit.... :-(

Dave
DPelletier is online now  
post #5 of 33 Old 08-14-2018, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Winston Salem, NC
Posts: 20
Very helpful on the DJ kit, Dave, and I agree on the metal bits...I'm getting pretty itchy to take the thing apart to see what I can find.
jsnfng is offline  
post #6 of 33 Old 08-14-2018, 03:35 PM
4th Gear
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Kelowna, B.C.
Posts: 2,342
hopefully not a bearing cage..... keeping my fingers crossed.


Dave
DPelletier is online now  
post #7 of 33 Old 08-14-2018, 04:04 PM
Pretty in Pink, dunno why
 
Tom Schmitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 7,570
Garage
I hate to go there, too. That's why I'd like to see more pieces. That piece looks too thin to be a bearing cage and it doesn't have the strong, sharp dimples from the spot weld that most of the bearings do, and the bearing cages are blackish. However, it is close to the right width and it does look like it has been run through a pair of gears. That could change a lot of things.

It does have the bulges of a bearing cage, though. Sorta.

I'm going to reserve my thoughts, hoping to see more. Meanwhile, I'll look through some transmissions, seals, and such like that. Nothing is jumping into my head like "Oh, that's the cage to the clutch arm needle bearing".

Tom [email protected]

“She went out slowly. The way she did it hadn’t been learned at business college.” -Philip Marlowe

“'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used.” -Napoleon Bonaparte


Sting like a butterfly.
Tom Schmitz is offline  
post #8 of 33 Old 08-14-2018, 04:36 PM Thread Starter
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Winston Salem, NC
Posts: 20
I was able to find some more pieces, and it looks like a few still have some shape to them. Hopefully these help a bit:
A few half-circle things



A few angles on this twisty piece




A few misc pieces


The originally posted piece

jsnfng is offline  
post #9 of 33 Old 08-14-2018, 05:29 PM
4th Gear
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Kelowna, B.C.
Posts: 2,342
Sorry to say but they look like bearing cages to me (at least most of them do.....some are/may have been distorted by running through some gears, etc.




Dave
DPelletier is online now  
post #10 of 33 Old 08-14-2018, 05:31 PM
Pretty in Pink, dunno why
 
Tom Schmitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 7,570
Garage
Oh dear.

That is a bearing cage. I was really hoping that the first piece was representative and too thin to be a bearing cage. You will need to pull the left side cases and look for a bad bearing.

Let me get some pictures up.

Tom [email protected]

“She went out slowly. The way she did it hadn’t been learned at business college.” -Philip Marlowe

“'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used.” -Napoleon Bonaparte


Sting like a butterfly.
Tom Schmitz is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mysterious low RPM """Lean""" surging (Yes I already tried KLX needle and adjusted air mix screw) PLEASE HELP!! omfgtimmy 1987 to 2007 Wrenching & Mods 33 08-10-2018 11:00 AM
digging a hole uk trailer guy Jokers Lounge 4 05-10-2014 07:25 PM
A Few Metal Shavings in Oil / 03 KLR 9,000 miles bshadley 1987 to 2007 Wrenching & Mods 4 03-08-2014 09:00 PM
Grabbing Clutch basement 2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions 8 08-12-2013 09:23 PM
Metal shavings in my oil? Gitrdun 1987 to 2007 Wrenching & Mods 7 05-30-2007 02:52 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome