Primary Drive Seal Install (Counter-Sprocket) - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
1987 to 2007 Wrenching & Mods For maintaining, repair or modifications of Generation 1 KLR's. 2007 and earlier.

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post #1 of 13 Old 09-20-2018, 10:59 AM Thread Starter
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Primary Drive Seal Install (Counter-Sprocket)

2003 KLR, RE-INSTALLING Primary Drive Seal (and O-Ring)...

When I did it a coupla weeks ago, I goofed something... it leaked. It was leaking drops after the 'Re-assembly Maiden Voyage' after I installed a new Seal before. It was sooooo long ago that I can't remember if I stumbled on the O-Ring at dis-assembly and just 'left it there', or if I replaced it. I thought I replaced it, buuuuu...

PDWestMan wondered if I installed the Seal too deep. Photos below make me think that I EITHER:
Didn't install it deep enough
OR
I somehow marred the Seal by installing as follows...
Install new O-Ring,
Install Collar,
BANG ON the Seal (over the Collar, but not deep enough),
and tie it all up.

NOPE!
LEAK!
... dang.

I'm hoping PDWestMan checks this Thread to advise me on Install... photos of

BAD INSTALL below...







Thx Fellers.

Last edited by KLRCraig; 09-20-2018 at 06:55 PM.
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post #2 of 13 Old 09-20-2018, 11:07 AM Thread Starter
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.....

Last edited by KLRCraig; 09-20-2018 at 06:56 PM.
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post #3 of 13 Old 09-21-2018, 01:02 PM
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KLRCraig, One should always confirm that seals are squarely installed and fully seated. But in this case as we discussed earlier, there is No inner lip to seat against. So we install flush with outer lip of engine case. (I would normally install the seal before the collar, to ensure the seal lip doesn't get rolled inside-out.)

Is it still leaking? With degreased and dry parts one can spray cheap white or gray foot powder around suspect area and allow to dry. Then start the engine and watch for the powder to discolor, usually see the source in a few seconds.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 83,000+ miles & counting
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post #4 of 13 Old 09-21-2018, 03:15 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for checking in PDWestMan

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
KLRCraig, One should always confirm that seals are squarely installed and fully seated. But in this case as we discussed earlier, there is No inner lip to seat against. So we install flush with outer lip of engine case. (I would normally install the seal before the collar, to ensure the seal lip doesn't get rolled inside-out.)
Is it still leaking?
The Photos in this Thread are from the failed install and I was hoping for a comment like, 'yeh, dude, you didn't drive the Seal in deep enough for one thing...' or not.

I'm-o install the Seal AFTER the Collar this time (I already decided that because of what you noted in that other Thread about the same thing). Driving it in straight caaaan be a challenge and I created a bigger one for myself when I tried to drive it OVER the Collar and IN the Case at the same time. Either that or the O-Ring failed.
So the photo in this Thread is the 1st Install which I've ripped out. Do you think by what you see that the Seal depth in that case was:

Too Shallow,
Too Deep, or
Goldilocks?

Thanks again for looking out; I really wanna be sure I don't have to do all this a third time... that'd just be embarrassing!!!
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post #5 of 13 Old 09-21-2018, 08:01 PM
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The flat face of the seal should be Flush & level all the way around the case seal pocket.

In your pic, it appears that you may have only driven the seal in until the beveled edge of the seal is near the case. So I'll suggest Too Shallow.
We need to keep sufficient clearance between the seal and the sprocket and the chain for mud and sand and small gravel to pass by without harm.

Hopefully there currently is NO oil Leakage to deal with, only seal depth, correct?

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 83,000+ miles & counting
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post #6 of 13 Old 09-21-2018, 08:16 PM Thread Starter
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THHAAAAT'S what I'm looking for YES!!!
I'll work on that on Sunday (I hope).
The photo here is old install (already ripped out that seal).
I'll install new one and bang it in skrait and ensure a more flush application with the outside edge.
BTW, that's what I thought after your re-direction and then removing the CounterSprocket to see...
Oh well, liveNlearn.
Hopefully a COOL post on Sunday about being FINALLY DONE with this disassembly!
Well, until the DooHickey which'll be next.

New photos to round out the Post with CORRECT INSTALL TO FOLLOW!

THANKYOUTHANKYOUTHANKYOU!!!
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post #7 of 13 Old 09-22-2018, 04:51 PM
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I see the term "BANG ON" used a couple of times above.

My only experience with that seal occurred when on the road returning to Houston from ridding the Trans-America Trail. I stopped at a pressure wash place in Oregon to clean the bike. After the wash I noticed an oil leak behind the sprocket. I found the seal had pooched out out of the case. I just pressed it back in even with the case with my thumbs and carried on stopping occasionally to check for leaks. It has been tens of thousands of miles since then and still no leaks.

Last edited by GoMotor; 09-22-2018 at 04:55 PM.
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post #8 of 13 Old 09-26-2018, 08:35 PM Thread Starter
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All good! Thanks pdwestman!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoMotor View Post
I see the term "BANG ON" used a couple of times above.
My only experience with that seal occurred when on the road returning to Houston from ridding the Trans-America Trail. I stopped at a pressure wash place in Oregon to clean the bike. After the wash I noticed an oil leak behind the sprocket. I found the seal had pooched out out of the case. I just pressed it back in even with the case with my thumbs and carried on stopping occasionally to check for leaks. It has been tens of thousands of miles since then and still no leaks.
So GoMotor saved me some heartache thank-you-very-MUCH!!! When you wrote of 'press' it occurred to me that 'banging' in the Seal (I learnt to do that with the wheel bearings) WAS NOT THE RIGHT WAY TO GO... 'specially since I 'missed' so many times (seal'd turn, go in sideways... GRRRR). I dropped the oversize socket that fit the Seal and pressed it in and around with my fingers and VOILA!!! INSTALLED






MORE BETTER!
Of course I've now learned that my WheelieMachine is such NOT JUST BECAUSE SHE'S A THUMPER, but the 15/43... so I'll be changing the Primary Drive Sprocket to a 16 to accommodate my 75% riding on Freeway/Surface Streets (50/50). I think the Tach is at like 5300 at 75mph... can you say BUUUZZZZZZ!!!

Any reccs that way? For the above riding, what sprocket change'd be smartest (they are both in pretty good used condition right now)? 16 on Front, or add 2 to the Rear or does it make a difference where I choose to 'add teeth' (short of kinking the chain at a 17T Primary)?

Thanks for all the help and guidance fellers; 'really 'preciate it!!!
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post #9 of 13 Old 09-26-2018, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLRCraig View Post
.............................
Of course I've now learned that my WheelieMachine is such NOT JUST BECAUSE SHE'S A THUMPER, but the 15/43... so I'll be changing the Primary Drive Sprocket to a 16 to accommodate my 75% riding on Freeway/Surface Streets (50/50). I think the Tach is at like 5300 at 75mph... can you say BUUUZZZZZZ!!!

Any reccs that way? For the above riding, what sprocket change'd be smartest (they are both in pretty good used condition right now)? 16 on Front, or add 2 to the Rear or does it make a difference where I choose to 'add teeth' (short of kinking the chain at a 17T Primary)?

Thanks for all the help and guidance fellers; 'really 'preciate it!!!
It doesn't matter much whether you change sprocket size on the front, rear or both within reason. One tooth on the front equals approximately three teeth on the rear. It also doesn't matter what others like. Buy a couple of sprockets and experiment with them. Then go with what "YOU" like and keep the others for spares/emergencies.

I travel long distances on the highway to get to some good long dirt routes. I carry spare fusses, inner tubes, control cables, nuts, bolts and tire patches. Also a 2 under front and a 2 over rear sprocket. I leave home on stock sprockets. I try to stay off the Interstates and don't need to go 75 mph. When I come to an area where I need lower gearing, I'll change sprockets. I rode from Houston to Inuvik, Northwest Territory, Canada on stock sprockets. It's a 1,000 mile round trip up to Inuvik and back on crushed gravel and then you are still 400 miles from a motorcycle shop. The gravel makes lots of grit and dust which ate what remained of my rear sprocket teeth off in about 800 miles. Fortunately I had the spare sprockets. I don't carry a spare chain because most 650cc bikes of any brand use 520 chains and most little shops will have them.

Last edited by GoMotor; 09-27-2018 at 12:36 AM.
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post #10 of 13 Old 09-27-2018, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLRCraig View Post
So GoMotor saved me some heartache thank-you-very-MUCH!!! When you wrote of 'press' it occurred to me that 'banging' in the Seal (I learnt to do that with the wheel bearings) WAS NOT THE RIGHT WAY TO GO... 'specially since I 'missed' so many times (seal'd turn, go in sideways... GRRRR). I dropped the oversize socket that fit the Seal and pressed it in and around with my fingers and VOILA!!! INSTALLED






MORE BETTER!
Of course I've now learned that my WheelieMachine is such NOT JUST BECAUSE SHE'S A THUMPER, but the 15/43... so I'll be changing the Primary Drive Sprocket to a 16 to accommodate my 75% riding on Freeway/Surface Streets (50/50). I think the Tach is at like 5300 at 75mph... can you say BUUUZZZZZZ!!!

Any reccs that way? For the above riding, what sprocket change'd be smartest (they are both in pretty good used condition right now)? 16 on Front, or add 2 to the Rear or does it make a difference where I choose to 'add teeth' (short of kinking the chain at a 17T Primary)?

Thanks for all the help and guidance fellers; 'really 'preciate it!!!
KLRCraig,
I REALLY hate to have to point this out. But you may or may not have just Restricted the oil Supply into the hollow center of the transmission output shaft and the 3 free-spinning gears which get their oil from inside of the shaft.

The steel collar has 4 quarter circle cut-outs pushed up against the bearing, these allow oil to pass to the hole which is between the o-ring and the inner race of the bearing. If the seal is pressed into contact with the inner race of the bearing, No Oil can enter the shaft.

I did previously state that the outer surface of the seal needs to be LEVEL with the outer flange of the case. Your seal is now Counter-Sunk.

You now get to extract that seal and press it or another one in, so as to be FLUSH/LEVEL with the case. I would not ride your bike with the seal pressed in that deep!

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 83,000+ miles & counting
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