Oil Pressure Experiments - 2009 KLR650 - Page 47 - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions For repair, maintaining or modifying discussions related to the newly updated 2008 and beyond, Generation 2 KLR650 Motorcycle.

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post #461 of 472 Old 11-23-2018, 08:54 PM
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I have given up trying to figure out why KHI does what they do. The KLR started with the KLR600 in '84. It had a kickstart. Even though they stopped installing a kickstart in '87 and took the pinion gear off of the back of the clutch in '96, they are doing all of the machining required to accept a complete kickstart kit to this day.

The KLR650 had a larger bore and a piston of heavier weight than the KLR600 but they did not change the balancer weights, even when they redesigned the sprockets.

They never changed the oiling system except to put internal ports in the head.

The pressure relief valve is a generic unit that blows at 75psi, even though the KLR's oil pump won't make much more than 60psi with cold oil, 20psi with hot oil.

There are quite a few things that have been done differently, and better, on other models during the 34 years of KLR production that never made it into the KLR.

The list of things that don't make any sense with the KLR is lengthy, but I'll stop at that.

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post #462 of 472 Old 01-30-2019, 01:12 PM
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This is a note for the record. I'm doing some revisiting of the topic and could not find justification for my belief that the oil pipe has an ID of .160". I found one post where I said that, but didn't say where the number came from. In fear that it was a PIDOOMA number I went back and measured the ID of the oil pipe that brings oil from the engine case to the cams and transmission one more time.

The inside diameter is .160" as measured with a small hole gauge.
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Last edited by Tom Schmitz; 01-30-2019 at 01:21 PM. Reason: added link so I can find the stupid thing again
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post #463 of 472 Old 01-30-2019, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Schmitz View Post
This is a note for the record. I'm doing some revisiting of the topic and could not find justification for my belief that the oil pipe has an ID of .160". I found one post where I said that, but didn't say where the number came from. In fear that it was a PIDOOMA number I went back and measured the ID of the oil pipe that brings oil from the engine case to the cams and transmission one more time.

The inside diameter is .160" as measured with a small hole gauge.
Thus . . . the ONLY error you ever made was ONCE, when you thought you MAY have been WRONG!

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post #464 of 472 Old 01-30-2019, 02:35 PM
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The older I get the more often that happens.

Keep Calm and CRS!
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post #465 of 472 Old 01-30-2019, 04:13 PM
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So .155 inches = 5/32nds, thats 2 fractional sizes over an 1/8th inch.

So that still reinforces my choice & reasoning of using Only One 1/8th inch hole in the transmission banjo bolt to encourage a larger share of oil to flow up to the cylinder head banjo bolt with two 1/8th inch holes thru in it.

I recently had this similar discussion with Norm K and a newbie over on FB.

But like I told them (again), the 5 free-spinning transmission gears, 1 clutch hub bushing & 1 kickstart gear (if fitted) may have tighter oil clearance's than the 4 intermittently loaded camshaft bearings. So these 10 or 11 clearances may become the oil flow control even with double 1/8th inch holes in all 3 banjo bolts. I'm certain that I suggested this possibility a couple of years ago. Possibly because of Toms first measurements of the oil pipe ID.
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post #466 of 472 Old 01-30-2019, 05:49 PM
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Your choice of a 92153-0627 for the transmission has never been in doubt in my mind.

I am quite certain that I built a spreadsheet to model the oiling system as far as what the restrictions were at the cams and transmission. This was when I was considering building a rig to estimate flow rates. I seem to have misplaced that spreadsheet.

What I'm currently interested in has nothing to do with flow rates, but it would be pretty easy to grab a transmission and cams and recreate that spreadsheet. Might do that.
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post #467 of 472 Old 01-30-2019, 06:49 PM
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@pdwestman,

I found it.

For the 8 edges at the cams, the equivalent hole is .170" in diameter.
For 12 edges in the transmission, the equivalent hole is .240" in diameter.

The number of leakage edges was determined by the number of 'flow arrows' in the lubrication system diagram that show where oil moves into or out of the cams/transmission shafts. It was enough to convince me that the 0627 bolt was a correct choice.
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Last edited by Tom Schmitz; 01-30-2019 at 07:18 PM. Reason: Oil pressure data KLR650 sheet 2
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post #468 of 472 Old 01-31-2019, 12:24 AM
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Are you saying here that because the transmission has a larger diameter hole "equivalent" that it was resisting less than the cams, and it was therefore beneficial to restrict flow to the trans via the banjo, because that would cause more oil to go to the cams? This oil mod thing is interesting, and I'm trying to understand it…

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post #469 of 472 Old 01-31-2019, 12:58 AM
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Essentially, yes.

Oil is being diverted away from the crank/cylinder wall/piston, which is the primary objective.

The diverted oil is going to the transmission and cams. To do that it must go through banjo bolts that we have enlarged, which is done by drilling a 1/8" cross hole through then bolts that feed the pipe (the 'middle banjo') and the cams. The transmission banjo is not cross drilled; its single hole is opened to 1/8". If it were opened by cross drilling then there would essentially be no restriction in the oil line save for that introduced by laminar flow. Laminar flow is a bit of a red herring, though, because it exists anywhere that the oil has to change direction or squeeze through a restriction. Thus it is pretty much a constant so there is not a lot of sense in talking about it. If it only existed in the transmission and the cams were lubed by flooding from an open pipe then it might make sense to talk about it.

The cams have enough oil to make them happy in the stock configuration. Sending more oil to them is not going to make them happier. That said, though, we don't want to do anything which would drop the pressure to them. Since both the transmission and the cams are getting more oil than in the stock configuration, it makes sense to play it safe and go with the type of banjo that Paul has chosen.

One can see this intuitively by looking at the lubrication flow diagram and seeing that the transmission has 50% more leakage points than the cams do. This, coupled with the knowledge that the transmission shafts are considerably larger than the camshafts, would tell you that the transmission leakage is going to be higher than the cams and you'd want a restriction on the transmission side of things.

Hope that makes sense.
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post #470 of 472 Old 01-31-2019, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
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Are you saying here that because the transmission has a larger diameter hole "equivalent" that it was resisting less than the cams, and it was therefore beneficial to restrict flow to the trans via the banjo, because that would cause more oil to go to the cams? This oil mod thing is interesting, and I'm trying to understand it…
Well not exactly.

In simplest terms, we just did not allow as much extra oil to flow to the transmission shafts as we allowed to the flow to the camshafts.
We removed more of the restriction to oil flow to the camshafts than the transmission shafts.

The factory banjo bolt oil holes are only a single 1/16th inch hole in each of the 3 banjo bolts. We basically opened the flood gates, judiciously.
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