Front Signal Light Wiring - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 10-29-2015, 03:44 PM Thread Starter
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Front Signal Light Wiring

Hey All

I'm trying to splice into my front signal light wires on my 2015 KLR to run to my Motech Kobra Handguard Signals. (Want both OEM and Kobra led's to flash.).

Only problem is that I don't know what color the + and - wires are for the front signals. Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks
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post #2 of 13 Old 10-29-2015, 04:10 PM
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All ground (-) wires for all applications on the KLR are Black/Yellow (black with yellow stripe). Hers is a color wiring diagram for you. KLR650.NET Forums - Your Kawasaki KLR650 Resource! - The Original KLR650 Forum!

You will notice that the pig tails for the turn signals have the same color (+) power wire for both left and right, but the color changes for the right side only where the pig tail attaches to the main harness plug. Still all ground wires are Black/Yellow.

Last edited by GoMotor; 10-29-2015 at 04:16 PM.
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post #3 of 13 Old 10-29-2015, 07:30 PM
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One joker in the deck, if you're going to LED turn signals.

The dashboard INDICATOR light (the one blinking when left or right turn signal is activated), in stock condition, is . . . don't know quite how to say this in words, but . . . looking at the two bulb leads, if you signal RIGHT, the left wire is positive, and the right wire is negative. If you signal LEFT, the opposite is true (right wire positive, left wire negative). This scheme is DEFEATED when LEDs are used for the signal lights, because . . . they are after all DIODES, allowing current to pass only one way.

So . . . unless you ground one side of the INDICATOR light, and install two diodes, one for LEFT turns, and one for RIGHT turns, on the other side of the bulb . . . you'll get a flashing indicator light for just one direction. The indicator light will be off for the other direction, although the signal lights will flash appropriately.

The mod, with circuit diagrams, is amply covered on the 'Net.

Here's a sample of the modification, completed on a Honda, as an example:

https://www.google.com/search?q=wiri...2Dno1ErJJ1M%3A

Last edited by Damocles; 10-29-2015 at 07:52 PM.
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post #4 of 13 Old 10-29-2015, 09:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
One joker in the deck, if you're going to LED turn signals.

The dashboard INDICATOR light (the one blinking when left or right turn signal is activated), in stock condition, is . . . don't know quite how to say this in words, but . . . looking at the two bulb leads, if you signal RIGHT, the left wire is positive, and the right wire is negative. If you signal LEFT, the opposite is true (right wire positive, left wire negative). This scheme is DEFEATED when LEDs are used for the signal lights, because . . . they are after all DIODES, allowing current to pass only one way.

So . . . unless you ground one side of the INDICATOR light, and install two diodes, one for LEFT turns, and one for RIGHT turns, on the other side of the bulb . . . you'll get a flashing indicator light for just one direction. The indicator light will be off for the other direction, although the signal lights will flash appropriately.

The mod, with circuit diagrams, is amply covered on the 'Net.

Here's a sample of the modification, completed on a Honda, as an example:

https://www.google.com/search?q=wiri...2Dno1ErJJ1M%3A
Ok. I see the potential issue but as I am keeping the original OEM signal lights and just adding a second set of LED's, won't it still work ok?

Also, is there any benefit to adding a ELFR-1 flasher relay?
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post #5 of 13 Old 10-29-2015, 09:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
................. This scheme is DEFEATED when LEDs are used for the signal lights, because . . . they are after all DIODES, allowing current to pass only one way...............
The easy solution here is to use a non-polarized LED for the dash indicator. It will pass current both ways. Mine does.

Several of the #194 wedge base LEDs in the link below show as non Polarity Sensitive on their specification tab. I like the lower lm (lumen) rated green ones because a bright flashing light is obnoxous at night.

https://www.superbrightleds.com/sear...0wedge%20bulb/
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post #6 of 13 Old 10-29-2015, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewfoundlandLaw View Post
Ok. I see the potential issue but as I am keeping the original OEM signal lights and just adding a second set of LED's, won't it still work ok?

Also, is there any benefit to adding a ELFR-1 flasher relay?
The reason for installing an electronic flasher relay when replacing incandescent signal light bulbs with LED bulbs is the LED signals may not pull enough current to activate the stock flasher relay. You are keeping the stock incandescent bulbs and adding some LED signal bulbs so you will still have enough current to operate the stock relay. It may operate at a slightly different rate due to the small extra load. If you don't like it, use an electronic relay.

The two diodes at the dash indicator light modification is due to the stock usage of the signal lights on the side opposite as the ground source for the low current of the indicator light. This would be necessary if you were using a polarity sensitive indicator bulb. It would also be necessary if you were using a higher current incandescent indicator bulb and only low current LED signal lights allowing the cross feed through the indicator to cause the opposite side signals to light up dimly. I think your stock signal bulbs will drain the cross feed to ground and keep the LED signals from lighting with cross feed.

Even though I think the system would work fine without them, I can see that with all the other work you are doing and the low cost of an electronic relay and the two diode kit you might want to just install them and not worry about it.
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post #7 of 13 Old 10-30-2015, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by GoMotor View Post
The easy solution here is to use a non-polarized LED for the dash indicator. It will pass current both ways. Mine does.
Unfamiliar with a, "non-polarized LED;" 'til now, I thought ALL diodes were, "polarized," a defining property of a diode. (No argument, no skepticism; just . . , hadn't heard of a LED with such properties before. Hey . . . I still think in VACUUM TUBES!)

Still, SIGNAL LEDs remain, "polarized." Thus, I don't think one direction signaling will activate the indicator light, even a non-polarized LED (because the signal LEDs in one direction will not pass activation voltage to the indicator light (same as with an incandescent indicator light and LED signal light bulbs).

Methinks grounding one side of the indicator lamp and two diodes for respective directional signal voltage remains the solution.

-----------------------------

EDIT: Reckon I had something; surfing the Web, I find half- or full-wave rectifiers are used to create a "non-polarized LED:"

http://www.dutchforce.com/~eforum/index.php?

The two-diode solution I mentioned is effectively a half-wave rectifier.

Last edited by Damocles; 10-30-2015 at 07:47 PM.
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post #8 of 13 Old 10-30-2015, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
.........Still, SIGNAL LEDs remain, "polarized." Thus, I don't think one direction signaling will activate the indicator light, even a non-polarized LED (because the signal LEDs in one direction will not pass activation voltage to the indicator light (same as with an incandescent indicator light and LED signal light bulbs)...........................
In the normal operation of the single dash indicator bulb with incandescent signals and an incandescent indicator bulb current only flows one way through the signals from positive at the switch to ground through the signals. One side of the signals is always grounded.

When the switch sends sends positive voltage to the signals on one side for a turn that same positive voltage feeds through the indicator bulb and goes to ground through the element in the off side signal lights. The dash indicator passes so little current that the off side signals do not light up, but the current flow is always from positive to ground through the signals on both the on side and the off side. LED signals would behave the same way with current always going only one way to ground on both the on side and the off side.

The system would work the same with an incandescent indicator and LED signals. The problem here is that the incandescent indicator might pass enough current to the off side low current LED signals to cause them to blink dimly in unison with the turn side signals. This brings up the need for the two diodes at the indicator to stop cross feed and dim blinking of the off side LED signals. I think, but don't know for sure that a small LED indicator would not pass enough current to cause off side LED signals to dimly blink.

Last edited by GoMotor; 10-30-2015 at 08:47 PM. Reason: Added last paragraph.
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post #9 of 13 Old 10-30-2015, 09:43 PM
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Don't see it that way myself, GoMotor, because, as mentioned, the signal LEDs remain, "polarized," they send juice only one way, and will not function as conduits for both left and right turn indication.

A riding partner has LED signal lights, without the diode-and-ground mod I mentioned for his incandescent indicator light. Right turns, the indicator is activated. Left turns, although the signal lights flash, no indicator light from the incandescent bulb. The incandescent bulb is non-polarized. Don't see how a non-polarized LED (a regular LED with a half-wave or full-wave rectifier) would behave differently.

The mod, by contrast, provides a fixed ground for one connection of the indicator bulb. With the diode/rectifier connection to the other indicator bulb connection, ANY positive voltage cycle will light the lamp. If the non-polarized LED enjoys a fixed ground, it would flash on both left and right turns. Connected as the stock non-polarized incandescent indicator light bulb, I don't think so.

That said, I may be in error; apologies/regrets in advance!

Last edited by Damocles; 10-30-2015 at 09:52 PM.
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post #10 of 13 Old 10-30-2015, 10:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
Don't see it that way myself, GoMotor, because, as mentioned, the signal LEDs remain, "polarized," they send juice only one way, and will not function as conduits for both left and right turn indication.

A riding partner has LED signal lights, without the diode-and-ground mod I mentioned for his incandescent indicator light. Right turns, the indicator is activated. Left turns, although the signal lights flash, no indicator light from the incandescent bulb. The incandescent bulb is non-polarized. Don't see how a non-polarized LED (a regular LED with a half-wave or full-wave rectifier) would behave differently.

The mod, by contrast, provides a fixed ground for one connection of the indicator bulb. With the diode/rectifier connection to the other indicator bulb connection, ANY positive voltage cycle will light the lamp. If the non-polarized LED enjoys a fixed ground, it would flash on both left and right turns. Connected as the stock non-polarized incandescent indicator light bulb, I don't think so.

That said, I may be in error; apologies/regrets in advance!
No apologies/regrets required. We are just searching for enlightenment here. I can tell you that I have a non-polarized LED indicator with incandescent signals and it works properly. I have put a polarized indicator bulb in and it only worked in one direction and if flipped 180 degrees it only worked in the other direction. With the two diode mod a non-polarized LED could be made to work in both directions.

I could make a system behave like your friend's by grounding the indicator bulb wire that should go to the left side.

We agree that polarized LED signals pass current only one way to ground, but that is all that is needed for a an incandescent or a non-polarized LED indicator to work without the two diode mod. I can't think of a better explanation for this than this paragraph from post #8 above:

When the switch sends sends positive voltage to the signals on one side for a turn that same positive voltage feeds through the indicator bulb and goes to ground through the element in the off side signal lights. The dash indicator passes so little current that the off side signals do not light up, but the current flow is always from positive to ground through the signals on both the on side and the off side. LED signals would behave the same way with current always going only one way to ground on both the on side and the off side.

The current is always going only one way to ground through the signals (incandescent or LED) on both the turn side and the off side no matter the type of indicator bulb.

There is still the question of how much current flows through the off side and will it light the indicator properly or cause the off side signals to glow. The two diode mode will eliminate that question.

By the way, I am guessing that the small non-polarized LED bulbs just use two separate parallel internal LEDs in parallel with one wired +- and the other -+, but that is just a guess.

Last edited by GoMotor; 10-30-2015 at 10:51 PM.
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