TopGun 100mm piston or 685 kit? - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions For repair, maintaining or modifying discussions related to the newly updated 2008 and beyond, Generation 2 KLR650 Motorcycle.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 28 Old 02-13-2016, 03:51 PM Thread Starter
Neutral
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Posts: 13
TopGun 100mm piston or 685 kit?

Hi there,
New here. Name is Greg.
TopGun says the sleeves on the 2008 are garbage and a re-sleeve is required and a std sized piston kit from them will solve the oil burning problems. Many of you say you have had long term success with the rebore kits like 685 from EagleMike and Schnitz. What should I do? I bought a 2008 in the Fall and it burns at the std. oil burner rate of a litre per 1000km. Thnx! I have searched for info on this site on the TopGun pistons with no luck.
GringoKLR2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 28 Old 02-13-2016, 06:14 PM
5th Gear
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lac La Biche Alberta Canada
Posts: 3,205
This is the first I have heard of an issue with the sleeves in the KLR engines. There are MANY mentions on this forum and others from happy customers who bought the 685 kits from EM. I have not heard one person say the kit didn't work as advertised. I believe you can spend you money with confidence if you purchase one from EagleMike
Regards....justjeff

It's not a Tractor....It's a LOCOMOTIVE!! Chugga Chugga
Woooo WOOOOO!!!!!
justjeff is offline  
post #3 of 28 Old 02-13-2016, 06:59 PM Thread Starter
Neutral
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: Calgary, AB, CANADA
Posts: 13
In TopGun's Contact Patch Blog on 2008 KLRs:

"Master mechanic Vey de la Cruz agreed that we were experiencing excessive oil
consumption. We took the 08 to Vey and asked him to inspect the cylinder, piston, and
rings. Although we suspected rings, it turned out that our cylinder liner was oval!! And
to add to our surprise, a fellow KLR rider had an 07 in the shop at the same time with
the same oval cylinder problem."


Hopefully Rod won't mind me posting a letter to me. Thanks Rod for the advice!
"Greg


2008 was the worst year for oval cylinders, even though there were no changes in 2009 Our 2008 started using a quart of oil in 800 miles. The real problem was the poor quality cylinder sleeve going oval. To properly fix this we used a high quality sleeve from the piston company and our forged piston. Problem solved. My two "A" models have had the same treatment and now I don't need to add any oil between changes. Just honing the old sleeve with the forged piston still uses the same poor quality sleeve that could go oval again.


In 2010 the rings part number changed meaning the rings were different Some still went oval due to the same poor quality sleeve, which is still used today.


The blog had older info that didn't include the sleeve problem. We send out the cylinder, sleeve and piston to be fitted which requires boring the new sleeve to fit the stock bore forged piston. By the time you figure shipping, parts, labor, gaskets (not included in kit) the total is about 500.00 - so it ain't cheap, but you'll never see that part of the engine again. It's also a good time to do a valve job - more money.


SO, you have to send us the cylinder (head too if you want us to do it) and you get back the final fix to excessive oil consumption. OR, we send you the parts (piston kit and sleeve) and have it done elsewhere (it does save shipping stuff to us). Just make sure whoever does it knows how.


Let me know what you want to do


Rod Morris
MMP"

Last edited by GringoKLR2; 02-13-2016 at 07:00 PM. Reason: Forgot something.
GringoKLR2 is offline  
 
post #4 of 28 Old 02-13-2016, 07:15 PM
5th Gear
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lac La Biche Alberta Canada
Posts: 3,205
For clarification I have heard of the cylinders going out of round from new. I have not heard of one going out of round AFTER it was bored to fit an oversize piston such as the 685. I don't see the need to replace the sleeve if it will remain round after boring for a replacement piston and rings. This is just a general observation on my part. Neither my '03 or my '11 use oil so I won't be needing a cylinder any time soon. If I were to need to replace the sleeve I would jump up to the 720 kit....
Regards....justjeff

It's not a Tractor....It's a LOCOMOTIVE!! Chugga Chugga
Woooo WOOOOO!!!!!
justjeff is offline  
post #5 of 28 Old 02-13-2016, 07:26 PM
OverDrive
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lander, Wyoming
Posts: 5,336
GringoKLR2,
I wouldn't spend the $$'s for a replacement cylinder sleeve.

Many successful repairs have been done with the Schnitz Racing or EM 658 and 685 kits in properly bored and honed stock cylinder sleeves.

I believe that OEM 1st or 2nd oversize sets should work also, in properly bored and hone cylinders.

There is 'some' additional info available about oil consumption causes/reasons on this forum. Check out the "oil pressure" threads/experiments.

GJJ,
Here is what/where I found on the Top Gun site.
Bullet Proof KLR650 In Trouble | Top Gun Motorcycle Products

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 84,000+ miles & counting
pdwestman is offline  
post #6 of 28 Old 02-13-2016, 07:46 PM
OverDrive
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lander, Wyoming
Posts: 5,336
GringoKLR2,
My post got scrambled a bit and I forgot to add some thing!

Most of us will encourage all KLR owners to fit a coolant re-circulation system or By-pass system, such as a "Thermo-Bob 2", available from www.watt_man.com. It will help keep a freshly "over-bored and honed" or "Replaced and honed" cylinder liner/sleeve from distorting.

Once the sleeve is bored and honed 'straight and true', we want to help keep it straight and true.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 84,000+ miles & counting
pdwestman is offline  
post #7 of 28 Old 02-13-2016, 09:04 PM
5th Gear
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,231
Just a suggestion; Wossner manufactures big-bore pistons for KLR650s (Tengais); these components have the performance advantage (besides increased engine displacement) of high compression ratio.

Wossner Piston Official Product | Wossner Piston Kawasaki KLR650 102 mm Bore (PN# 8523D200)

Information offered only for consideration; no personal experience with the product; have read favorable Internet comments.
Damocles is offline  
post #8 of 28 Old 02-13-2016, 10:35 PM
1st Gear
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 58
There is something puzzling about the message from Rod Morris:

"In 2010 the rings part number changed meaning the rings were different Some still went oval due to the same poor quality sleeve, which is still used today."

If the sleeve hasn't changed, why is 2008 the oil burner year? If the new 2010 rings are the answer to that question, why was 2009 a better year for oil burners than 2008?

Fast, good, cheap - choose two.

The Bluejay: 2009, EM 685 kit, Corbin seat, Wow LED tail light, rear DirtRacks bars, Shorai, Cee Bailey windshield, Superbrace, UNI air filter, EM Doo, KLX needle, T-Bob, de-snorkeled and box drilled, JNS bigfoot, skid plate, and aux light bar, SW Motech crash bars, Cycra hand guards, LeoVince X3, T-mod, Ernie Bell clutch arm, Cogent Pro Shock rear and DDC front, Galfer SS brake lines front/rear, MC Mod, Rox Anti-vibe Risers, Idabiker H7, many more...
DanBarwick is offline  
post #9 of 28 Old 02-13-2016, 11:09 PM
5th Gear
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Lac La Biche Alberta Canada
Posts: 3,205
The pre '08 KLRs were known to use some oil. Kawi tried another different ring package in '08 that was much worse then changed it again in late '09 but it wasn't the answer either. They seem to have figured it out by 2011, the year of my bike. "08s bad '09s and '10s better. My '11 doesn't like Rotella T 10-40 but uses no oil between changes with Castrol GTX.
JJ

It's not a Tractor....It's a LOCOMOTIVE!! Chugga Chugga
Woooo WOOOOO!!!!!
justjeff is offline  
post #10 of 28 Old 02-14-2016, 07:56 PM
OverDrive
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lander, Wyoming
Posts: 5,336
Quote:
Originally Posted by Medicineball View Post
There is something puzzling about the message from Rod Morris:

"In 2010 the rings part number changed meaning the rings were different Some still went oval due to the same poor quality sleeve, which is still used today."

If the sleeve hasn't changed, why is 2008 the oil burner year? If the new 2010 rings are the answer to that question, why was 2009 a better year for oil burners than 2008?
The biggest issue with the '08 and '09 rings, turned out to be that an unusually high number of non-concentric #2 rings apparently slid past "quality control" and onto the assembly line.
The #2 ring is sharpened like a scissor or lawnmower blade, it is the "final oil scraper". A 1 - 1&1/2 inch section was usually found to be mis-ground, allowing a thin oil film to sneak past.

I repaired 2 '09s and zero '08s.

The #2 ring was confirmed by Normk and WymanWinn on over 30 sets that WW had removed himself.

But there is a 'whole lot' more involved than just round cylinders and round rings.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 84,000+ miles & counting
pdwestman is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
685 piston question artrix 2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions 5 07-20-2014 11:50 AM
685 Piston Identification? moriver 2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions 8 09-13-2012 10:53 AM
685 kit Arnie 2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions 15 01-02-2012 09:43 AM
685 kit, do you have one? tomatocity 2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions 2 03-12-2010 04:25 PM
685 Kit? pinoyal 1987 to 2007 Wrenching & Mods 8 03-05-2010 01:13 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome