No license plate lamp after tapping for relay. - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
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post #1 of 18 Old 08-24-2016, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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No license plate lamp after tapping for relay.

Until today, my heated grips were hard wired to my battery. Which was fine provided I forgot to turn them off.

I recently ordered some automotive relays and thought the area under the seat would be an ideal location to mount it.

Looking around for an appropriate wire to tap, the license plate lamp looked convenient and pretty benign should it not be a smooth undertaking.

Anyway, the relay and grips work as they should when everything's connected. However, the license plate lamp doesn't illuminate.

It's wired up as follows: Blue (#30 from battery), yellow ($87) to grips. Black (85) and white (86) wires are connected to the lamp wiring. The red wire, #87A, is unused (5 pin relay).

Reversing the white/black wires from the relay doesn't fix the problem.

When I connect the original wires together again, it the light works as it should.

So, there's switched voltage at the relay to close and power the grips, but nothing for the lights.

I'm left to think that there's too much of a voltage drop across the relay and not enough power left to light the bulb.

In the meantime, does anyone have any explanations? Is there a better switched wire to tap into that runs under the seat?

Last edited by subvetssn; 08-24-2016 at 09:08 PM.
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post #2 of 18 Old 08-24-2016, 08:30 PM
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I don't see the wiring diagram you are referring to so have no idea function those wires serve. Also, what year KLR is it.

You need to tap one relay holding coil wire to the tail/tag light wire to activate the relay and run the other holding coil wire to ground. Then run the main FUSED power wire from the battery to one of the normally open contact wires of the relay and the wire other from the other side of the normally open contacts goes out to the grips. Then the other side of the grips goes to ground.

Last edited by GoMotor; 08-24-2016 at 08:40 PM.
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post #3 of 18 Old 08-24-2016, 08:57 PM Thread Starter
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Update:

Just replaced the batteries in my multimeter and grabbed a flashlight.

Switched voltage is 11.6 V at the relay and only milivolts being supplied to the light.

These are 5 pin ebay "specials". I'll stop by the parts store tomorrow and get a simpler 4 pin relay and try again.

Last edited by subvetssn; 08-24-2016 at 09:07 PM.
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post #4 of 18 Old 08-24-2016, 09:09 PM
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Generally I think you'd want to wire it this way, using the tail light wire as the trigger and taking power straight off the battery.


If you wired it like this, taking power from the tail light wire, then the grips would consume enough power to prevent the tail light from illuminating.


Note: Tail Lamp, License Plate Lamp, same-same.

Tom

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post #5 of 18 Old 08-24-2016, 09:33 PM Thread Starter
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Generally I think you'd want to wire it this way, using the tail light wire as the trigger and taking power straight off the battery.




Note: Tail Lamp, License Plate Lamp, same-same.

Tom
Yes. The tail light is the "trigger".

Left and right is a trigger (85 and 86), top and bottom power the grips (30 and 87) just as it should be according to any number of schematics I've looked at. The center pin, #87A, is unused.

Interestingly, if I remove the downstream trigger (86) and connect the supposedly unused wire (Normally closed 87A) in it's place, the tail lamp is always light, even when the bike is turned off. So, correct wiring yields no downstream trigger voltage and a supposedly unused wire is always hot. Weird.

As I mentioned above, I think a simpler 4 pin relay is the next step.
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post #6 of 18 Old 08-24-2016, 10:47 PM
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Why are 85 and 86 both connected to the lamp wiring? One should be connect to ground. You are grounding the solenoid through the license plate light.

Tom
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post #7 of 18 Old 08-25-2016, 07:02 AM Thread Starter
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Why are 85 and 86 both connected to the lamp wiring? One should be connect to ground. You are grounding the solenoid through the license plate light.

Tom
Without the input trigger connecting at 85 and output trigger wired to 86, how would there be a complete circuit for the tail light? There'd be no voltage applied to the hot side of the lamp otherwise, right? Right? :/
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post #8 of 18 Old 08-25-2016, 07:43 AM
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Without the input trigger connecting at 85 and output trigger wired to 86, how would there be a complete circuit for the tail light? There'd be no voltage applied to the hot side of the lamp otherwise, right? Right? :/
You're not affecting the circuit for the license plate light in any way. The only thing you are doing is tapping into the positive lead of the lamp light to serve as a trigger (i.e. impart power) to the relay. Remember, PIN30 (direct to your battery) is NOT powering the relay; PIN30 is powering your accessory. PIN85 is what's powering your relay, and in your case this is done with PIN85 tapped into the positive wire to the lamp. When the key is turned on, power goes to the light and the relay.

The relay itself is an electrical device that requires grounding, via PIN86. The best grounding solution is the negative terminal on your battery, but you can use any suitable ground.

You've figured out that the 87 PINS are the accessory pins. PIN87 is "a normally closed circuit" and PIN87A is "a normally open circuit." So, a circuit along PIN30 to PIN87 opens when the trigger source is powered; the circuit along PIN30 to PIN87A is closed when the trigger source is powered. There are applications for a 5 pin, but it should work fine in this situation. Connect the positive wire to your accessory to PIN87.

Similar to the relay, your accessory needs separate/discrete grounding. Again, ground it separately to the negative terminal on the battery or other suitable grounding source.

Okay....

Now if, as you say, you had PIN86 tapped into to the negative wire to your lamp light I might have thought that this whole thing would have worked. That is, the negative wire to your lamp light might have been sufficient grounding for the relay. Maybe not, I don't know. First thing though is to move your ground on PIN86 to the negative terminal to your battery.

If that doesn't work, test your trigger power using a circuit tester and relay with your multimeter. Use a circuit tester and make sure the wire your using for the trigger lights your circuit tester light only when the key is on. On the relay, put your multimeter on ohms. First, with nothing connected to the relay, check to see if there is an open circuit between PIN30 and PIN87A; there should be. Then connect PIN85 to the positive battery terminal; connect PIN86 to negative battery terminal. That should create an open circuit between PIN30 and PIN87. If either didn't work, the relay is probably bad. Like any electrical component, relays can be damaged.
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post #9 of 18 Old 08-25-2016, 08:46 AM Thread Starter
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You're not affecting the circuit for the license plate light in any way. The only thing you are doing is tapping into the positive lead of the lamp light to serve as a trigger (i.e. impart power) to the relay. Remember, PIN30 (direct to your battery) is NOT powering the relay; PIN30 is powering your accessory. PIN85 is what's powering your relay, and in your case this is done with PIN85 tapped into the positive wire to the lamp. When the key is turned on, power goes to the light and the relay.

The relay itself is an electrical device that requires grounding, via PIN86. The best grounding solution is the negative terminal on your battery, but you can use any suitable ground.

You've figured out that the 87 PINS are the accessory pins. PIN87 is "a normally closed circuit" and PIN87A is "a normally open circuit." So, a circuit along PIN30 to PIN87 opens when the trigger source is powered; the circuit along PIN30 to PIN87A is closed when the trigger source is powered. There are applications for a 5 pin, but it should work fine in this situation. Connect the positive wire to your accessory to PIN87.

Similar to the relay, your accessory needs separate/discrete grounding. Again, ground it separately to the negative terminal on the battery or other suitable grounding source.

Okay....

Now if, as you say, you had PIN86 tapped into to the negative wire to your lamp light I might have thought that this whole thing would have worked. That is, the negative wire to your lamp light might have been sufficient grounding for the relay. Maybe not, I don't know. First thing though is to move your ground on PIN86 to the negative terminal to your battery.

If that doesn't work, test your trigger power using a circuit tester and relay with your multimeter. Use a circuit tester and make sure the wire your using for the trigger lights your circuit tester light only when the key is on. On the relay, put your multimeter on ohms. First, with nothing connected to the relay, check to see if there is an open circuit between PIN30 and PIN87A; there should be. Then connect PIN85 to the positive battery terminal; connect PIN86 to negative battery terminal. That should create an open circuit between PIN30 and PIN87. If either didn't work, the relay is probably bad. Like any electrical component, relays can be damaged.

Thanks for the explanation.

There is about 80 ohms resistance between pin 85 and 86. This falls into the normal range for the coil, so I assume that it's good. There's also a voltage drop. I also got the same readings with a second relay that was part of the order. I think it's safe to say that the relays are good and the problem lies with the installer.

The difficulty I'm facing is not understanding wires.

The Navy trained me to troubleshoot electronic circuits and very little about wires. LOL. It's also not helping that we were taught "hole" flow (positive to negative) and not electron current flow (negative to positive). I seldom consider grounds in the overall scheme of things.
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post #10 of 18 Old 08-25-2016, 08:48 AM
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You're on the right track. It's your relay ground that's the issue.

Wire 85 to lamp hot side of lamp. Fuse with 1 amp fuse if you want to. Then if relay or wire shorts, 1 amp blows and your light fuse does not. Locate fuse as close as you can to "tap in" location.

Wire 86 to chassis or battery ground. NOTE: I use a chassis so I don't have to remove it just to swap a battery.

Fuse relay term 30 at positive battery as close as is reasonably possible. Use fuse that is same rating as grip fuse. NOTE: I wire to starter solenoid hot side (NOT BATTERY) so I don't have to remove a bunch of wires just to swap a battery.

87 is hot feed for grips.

**************
SIDE NOTE: OXFORD BRAND HEATED GRIPS SHUT THEMSELVES OFF WHEN VOLTAGE GETS LOW.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT: Consider wiring 87 to the feed side of a aftermarket fuse block. That would leave room for future switched accessories independently fused from each other. You never know what the next doodad will be that you'll add.





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Last edited by Toney; 08-25-2016 at 09:06 AM.
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