2009 Down for the count - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions For repair, maintaining or modifying discussions related to the newly updated 2008 and beyond, Generation 2 KLR650 Motorcycle.

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post #1 of 23 Old 10-21-2016, 04:56 PM Thread Starter
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2009 Down for the count

New here and looking to get some help, Here is the full story: It started this past July, I went for a ride around Cayuga lake and was riding along when I came on A big lumbering RV, Had a chance to pass and I took it, I got along side of him and the bike started stumbling like I was out of gas. I went to put it on reserve and same thing. Had to pull over and it would not start easily. I did get it running using full choke and I did make it home.
I have since looked at and have removed and cleaned the carb (3 times), airbox twice, valve adjustment (both exhaust were tight and put in new shims, intake were in spec) replaced the coil, pulled the petcock out and checked it, all fuel hoses were fine with no leaks, checked all wiring. The ground going to the starter was melted so I fixed it and put a new end on it.
The weird thing is I am getting intermittent spark, If I hold the plug away from the bike (like an inch) The spark will jump to the engine case, but if I ground it to the case I get noting or spark will go to the case. not across the gap at the plug. I thought I had it when I replaced the ground wire.
I put the whole thing back together then and it is doing the same thing, It will start after a new plug is installed and will run, but will stumble around 3000 rpm. After you run it awhile the plug will load up with black carbon and not start, if you hold it long enough it will have a massive backfire.
Its making me drink more than normal!
I do have an aprilia and a s10 that keep me from turning into a total alcoholic, but I miss the little beast and would like to get her back on the road.
Oh it is all stock except for do hickey and 22 cent mod. She has 20000 miles on it and everything else seems to work fine, lights, starter exc.

Thanks for listening and would like any other ideas, voltage rec, cdi???
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post #2 of 23 Old 10-21-2016, 08:17 PM
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The black carbon fouling on the plug makes me think it's getting way too much fuel... Electrical is usually not intermittent, it either works or not. The part I don't get is it running with the enricher. The float and float needle seat were ok? Jets all clean and clear? Just thinking out loud here, I'm sure other folks will have better ideas than me .

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post #3 of 23 Old 10-21-2016, 08:51 PM
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Was there a factory recall for wiring harness rub-throughs on that 2009 as there was for the 2008?

If there is a rub-through in the area of the tank, it can fire the plug with the tank off, but short out while ridding with the tank on.
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post #4 of 23 Old 10-22-2016, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by GoMotor View Post
Was there a factory recall for wiring harness rub-throughs on that 2009 as there was for the 2008?

If there is a rub-through in the area of the tank, it can fire the plug with the tank off, but short out while ridding with the tank on.
Yup, I believe that the recall also covered some of the 2009 models as well. Easy to check as well, just have a dealership run the VIN to see if the work has been done yet. If not they will repair it for free. Same with the signal lights and muffler recalls.

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post #5 of 23 Old 10-22-2016, 11:14 AM
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High-tension spark plug cable and connector o.k.?
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post #6 of 23 Old 10-22-2016, 01:17 PM
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Any time I read about a new member that may or may not be well versed in KLR CVK carburetor and I read 22 cent mod, and mid-range and above issues, I immediately suspect a pinched edge of the rubber throttle valve Diaphragm!
Any vacuum leakage above the rubber diaphragm and the slide can not/will not raise properly. Then with the throttle butterfly plate opened the engine sucks more fuel than air, runs rich, won't rev, fouls plugs, etc.

The rib around the outer perimeter of the diaphragm needs to be perfect.

Tucker Rocky/Bikers Choice dealers can order a rubber diaphragm. Part #482841. Intended to be sold to the Harley crowd, for the same reason!
I need to give credit to "Alpheus" over on .net for discovering this part for all of us. He even has a video of installation. I am forbidden to search for it over there, because of my past 'transgressions'.

I have not yet needed to use one, but I do have one. $16.95
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post #7 of 23 Old 10-22-2016, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
....................Tucker Rocky/Bikers Choice dealers can order a rubber diaphragm. Part #482841. Intended to be sold to the Harley crowd, for the same reason!
I need to give credit to "Alpheus" over on .net for discovering this part for all of us. He even has a video of installation. I am forbidden to search for it over there, because of my past 'transgressions'....................
Shame on you for transgressions.
Here is the part info: Twin Power #482841: Keihin CV Carb Vacuum Piston Diaphragm - Fuel & Air
Here is the video:
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post #8 of 23 Old 10-22-2016, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
Any time I read about a new member that may or may not be well versed in KLR CVK carburetor and I read 22 cent mod, and mid-range and above issues, I immediately suspect a pinched edge of the rubber throttle valve Diaphragm!
Any vacuum leakage above the rubber diaphragm and the slide can not/will not raise properly. Then with the throttle butterfly plate opened the engine sucks more fuel than air, runs rich, won't rev, fouls plugs, etc.

The rib around the outer perimeter of the diaphragm needs to be perfect.

Tucker Rocky/Bikers Choice dealers can order a rubber diaphragm. Part #482841. Intended to be sold to the Harley crowd, for the same reason!
I need to give credit to "Alpheus" over on .net for discovering this part for all of us. He even has a video of installation. I am forbidden to search for it over there, because of my past 'transgressions'.

I have not yet needed to use one, but I do have one. $16.95
I've had the same reaction to the possibility of diaphragm air leaks. However . . . I thought the effect was the opposite from the one you describe.

Without air-tight seal and full vacuum, I thought, the slide and needle would not rise as they should in response to the throttle valve opening. Since the needle cannot uncover the main jet adequately under that circumstance, the mixture would be fuel-lean, since fuel flow through the main/needle jets would be compromised (insufficient needle lift).

I thought this theory was validated, when I found an engine with a carburetor diaphragm air leak that would run only with the starting enricher fully open, fuel-enriching the mixture to compensate for the inadequate fuel flow from the "too-low" needle excursion.

Summarizing, I thought the effect of a diaphragm air leak was a fuel-lean mixture, not a fuel-rich one.

My theory/conjecture only; if in error, I appreciate any correction/alternate explanation.

--------------------

BTW; Alpheus has departed the KLR fold; is now a full-up Harley man! A function, somewhat, of his longer commute into his "day job" from his new lake community home. His expertise on Keihin CV carburetors will not go entirely to waste, depending upon the Harley models whose company he keeps!

Last edited by Damocles; 10-22-2016 at 04:51 PM.
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post #9 of 23 Old 10-22-2016, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
I've had the same reaction to the possibility of diaphragm air leaks. However . . . I thought the effect was the opposite from the one you describe...........
My theory/conjecture only; if in error, I appreciate any correction/alternate explanation.-------------------...........
My theory is the same. The butterfly valve in front of the carburetor controls the air flow not the slide. So, under normal circumstances due to Bernoulli's principle, when the butterfly allows more air through the carburetor, the lower pressure below the slide feeds up above the diaphragm and sucks the slide up. The rising slid raises the needle allowing more fuel in for the proper mixture.

If the diaphragm leaks, the needle is not raised enough to allow more fuel flow for the increased air flow allowed by the butterfly and the mixture is lean. There would be a lower pressure at the idle jet and enricher openings down stream of the slide, thus using the enricher enriches the mixture more than normal and helps a bit.

Last edited by GoMotor; 10-22-2016 at 06:13 PM.
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post #10 of 23 Old 10-22-2016, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
I've had the same reaction to the possibility of diaphragm air leaks. However . . . I thought the effect was the opposite from the one you describe.

Without air-tight seal and full vacuum, I thought, the slide and needle would not rise as they should in response to the throttle valve opening. Since the needle cannot uncover the main jet adequately under that circumstance, the mixture would be fuel-lean, since fuel flow through the main/needle jets would be compromised (insufficient needle lift).

I thought this theory was validated, when I found an engine with a carburetor diaphragm air leak that would run only with the starting enricher fully open, fuel-enriching the mixture to compensate for the inadequate fuel flow from the "too-low" needle excursion.

Summarizing, I thought the effect of a diaphragm air leak was a fuel-lean mixture, not a fuel-rich one.

My theory/conjecture only; if in error, I appreciate any correction/alternate explanation.

--------------------

BTW; Alpheus has departed the KLR fold; is now a full-up Harley man! A function, somewhat, of his longer commute into his "day job" from his new lake community home. His expertise on Keihin CV carburetors will not go entirely to waste, depending upon the Harley models whose company he keeps!
Damocles,
Take the fuel tank and air intake duct off of your Bayou 300. (I think I remember you said you own one?) Easier to see than the KLR650.

Remove the carb top. Insert a bristle from a broom, to create an vacuum leak, reinstall carb top. Start the engine and try to raise the RPM, while holding a business card near the bell mouth of the carb. Note the 'spit-back' of raw fuel. I could be incorrect. I've never done the business card trick!

The Non-rising slide acts as a manual choke plate. The mid-range jet NEEDLE does Not completely seal the mid-range needle JET.
Therefore the engine should be pulling raw fuel from the idle mixture screw, the 3 low speed by-pass holes and the mid-range Needle/Jet.

pdwestman
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