Starter spinning too fast - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions For repair, maintaining or modifying discussions related to the newly updated 2008 and beyond, Generation 2 KLR650 Motorcycle.

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post #1 of 11 Old 05-20-2017, 03:23 AM Thread Starter
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Starter spinning too fast

Sometimes when I let off the starter button it starts.

Most times from a cold start I pull the choke all the way and hit the starter and in a few seconds it starts.

Sometimes when it sits a half hour or so after a ride it can be hard to start, no choke half or full choke and it just cranks and cranks sometimes with some backfiring which makes an awful clack and kicks the bendix out of gear.

I try not to lay on the starter more than 10-15 seconds per start but when letting off the thing starts!
Short pulses to the button don't help.
On warm starts usually I just slightly crack the throttle open with no choke starts it right up.
Always starts hot with no choke or throttle.

Today it was sitting on the street with afternoon temps in the mid 80s.
Cold start so to speak and I pulled the choke as usual but it just cranked. Tried different choke positions but no go for about 5 tries then when letting off the starter it started.

lol I doubt the starter is spinning too fast but I'm wondering if it's something to do with a clogged jet or vacuum in the petcock or ??? I dunno, searched but didnt find much other than unhappy Mopar owners with bad ballast resistors or start switches but those wouldn't apply here.

1967 Yamaha 180 YCS-1
1973 Kawasaki F6 125
1974 Kawasaki F7 175
1975 Yamaha DT400
1980 Suzuki GS550L
2011 Kawasaki KLR650

Last edited by UncleJohnsBike; 05-20-2017 at 03:56 AM. Reason: more info
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post #2 of 11 Old 05-20-2017, 06:40 AM
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Generation 2 ignition depends upon battery voltage (unlike Generation 1s, whose ignition is powered by AC from stator exciter coils). Thus, when you release the starter button, the electrical power previously activating the starter motor becomes instantly available to power (saturate the ignition coil primary windings) your Generation 2 ignition, perhaps resulting in a hotter spark and facilitating engine start-up.

All the above: PURE CONJECTURE!

Wouldn't hurt to go through the, "Carb Overhaul" thread on this website, IMHO; in search of less dramatic starting sequences, regardless.
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post #3 of 11 Old 05-20-2017, 10:54 AM
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UncleJohn,
The starter system on the KLR650 (and most other Japanese bikes) do Not use a bendix drive.
Instead we use a one-way sprag clutch. If too slippery of automotive grade engine oil is used it can sometimes cause the sprag to slip-then-grip. Very ugly noise.

What oil are you using? Looking at the back label does it have the JASO MA or MA2 (motorcycle application for wet clutches) approval?

I'll ask how many miles are on the bike and when was your last valve tappet inspection/adjustment.
Low cold cranking compression caused by under-spec valve tappet clearances are a major cause of starting issues.
125-90 psi is Great, 90-75 psi is getting reluctant when cold, 75-60 psi barely starts, under 60 psi is near impossible to start.

Tell me how you service your air filter and what type it is.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 85,000+ miles & counting
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post #4 of 11 Old 05-20-2017, 02:25 PM Thread Starter
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PURE CONJECTURE!
lol That almost sounds good but I'll search for that thread and would like to tear the carb apart someday.
The last owner did the KLX carb upgrade kit but I question his work, he wasnt much of a mechanic.

I wasnt sure what the "Bendix" was called but I do remember seeing the drive youre talking about and you know the noise.
I'm using Kawasaki 20-40W oil so I'm sure thats not a problem.

The bike almost has 12,000 miles on it and is due for a valve measurement.
I'm not sure if it was ever checked. I bought this bike in March and put a few hundred miles on.
The last owner didnt mention the valve check, just that he replaced the spark plug recently.

I dont have a compression tester but it's maybe time to buy one.
For the most part it starts 85% of the time and seems to have plenty of power.
I read somewhere in here about the compression release mod but I want to stay away from that.

Thanks for the replies.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
UncleJohn,
The starter system on the KLR650 (and most other Japanese bikes) do Not use a bendix drive.
Instead we use a one-way sprag clutch. If too slippery of automotive grade engine oil is used it can sometimes cause the sprag to slip-then-grip. Very ugly noise.

What oil are you using? Looking at the back label does it have the JASO MA or MA2 (motorcycle application for wet clutches) approval?

I'll ask how many miles are on the bike and when was your last valve tappet inspection/adjustment.
Low cold cranking compression caused by under-spec valve tappet clearances are a major cause of starting issues.
125-90 psi is Great, 90-75 psi is getting reluctant when cold, 75-60 psi barely starts, under 60 psi is near impossible to start.

Tell me how you service your air filter and what type it is.

1967 Yamaha 180 YCS-1
1973 Kawasaki F6 125
1974 Kawasaki F7 175
1975 Yamaha DT400
1980 Suzuki GS550L
2011 Kawasaki KLR650
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post #5 of 11 Old 05-20-2017, 03:14 PM
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UncleJohn,
Have you serviced the oiled foam air filter since you purchased the bike from the one with 'questionable' mechanical aptitude?

He may have cleaned it and left it DRY! With-out oil or enough oil in the foam your bike may be sucking dust, which tightens the tappet clearances. Which Lowers the CCC, which contributes to, or causes reluctant starting. Will eventually become "No Start".

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 85,000+ miles & counting
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post #6 of 11 Old 05-20-2017, 03:55 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry I forgot to address this the first time you asked.

I'm pretty sure it still has the white colored stock air cleaner.
I took it out when I drilled holes in the top of the air box and removed the snorkel.
The snorkel side had a little 5 O'clock shadow but looked clean otherwise and left a thin film of oil on my hands like after eating fried chicken.

I will clean it and I have some K&N spray oil to re-oil it.
From spraying pleated paper air filters I know when too much is enough.
I guess a light squeeze wouldn't hurt to make sure its not saturated.


Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
UncleJohn,
Have you serviced the oiled foam air filter since you purchased the bike from the one with 'questionable' mechanical aptitude?

He may have cleaned it and left it DRY! With-out oil or enough oil in the foam your bike may be sucking dust, which tightens the tappet clearances. Which Lowers the CCC, which contributes to, or causes reluctant starting. Will eventually become "No Start".

1967 Yamaha 180 YCS-1
1973 Kawasaki F6 125
1974 Kawasaki F7 175
1975 Yamaha DT400
1980 Suzuki GS550L
2011 Kawasaki KLR650
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post #7 of 11 Old 05-20-2017, 05:17 PM
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K&N oil on a foam filter is probably too thick. K&N filters are actually pretty bad at filtering, so they require (IMO) a very thick oil to pick up the slack.

There are many brands/types of oil made for foam filters. Almost all of them are cheaper to buy, and easier to use/clean up after, than K&N.

There is one brand of foam filter oil called No Toil that I absolutely love. It is organic ( plant based) so it's non-toxic. I'm not a hippie or anything, but being non-toxic makes life very simple. The "catch" to using No Toil filer oi is that you MUST use their cleaner to remove their oil . No other products will clean it off. Trust me. Since No Toil is non-toxic ( they use alcohol to dilute it) I just oil and clean my filters in the kitchen sink. The alcohol smell dissipates within just a few minutes and there's no worries about just rinsing it all down the drain. NoToil filter cleaner is actually in powder form and you just mix it with water like any normal soap powder. If you oil your filter without gloves you can just wet your hands and use a bit of the cleaning powder to wash up with. Non-toxic, no smells...easy.

It beats the hell outta washing filters in the driveway with gasoline or mineral spirits ($$$) and trying to keep that stinking stuff of your hands/pants/shoes/grass and away from your pets. All other brands of filter oil besides No Toil require petroleum to clean them. Personally, I hate that. And the petroleum eventually just dissolves your filter anyway, especially gasoline.

My wife has no idea what's going on when I'm washing and oiling my filters in the kitchen. It's really that simple.


p.s.- I don't work for No Toil lol. I'm just an extremely satisfied No Toil customer that has a bad history with anything marked K&N.
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post #8 of 11 Old 05-20-2017, 08:33 PM
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yep, go buy some Bel-Ray or PJ1 foam filter oil. Do not use gauze filter oil on a foam filter

Dave
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post #9 of 11 Old 05-20-2017, 08:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shinyribs View Post
K&N oil on a foam filter is probably too thick. K&N filters are actually pretty bad at filtering, so they require (IMO) a very thick oil to pick up the slack.

There is one brand of foam filter oil called No Toil that I absolutely love. -------------------------------------------------------------------- All other brands of filter oil besides No Toil require petroleum to clean them. Personally, I hate that. And the petroleum eventually just dissolves your filter anyway, especially gasoline.

My wife has no idea what's going on when I'm washing and oiling my filters in the kitchen. It's really that simple.


p.s.- I don't work for No Toil lol. I'm just an extremely satisfied No Toil customer that has a bad history with anything marked K&N.
shinyribs,
I am quite surprised that you wrote your response 'Backwards'.
K&N air filter oil is TOO THIN to use on foam air filters. It Drains Out of the inorganic sponge material, leaving it too dry!
K&N air filters are made of organic surgical Cotton Gauze, sandwiched between two layers of screen. The K&N oil is Absorbed by the cotton.

Your No-Toil oil for FOAM Air Filters is quite a bit tackier / stickyier than most petroleum Foam Air Filter oils, after 30 minutes! But you GOTTA' remember to Shake, shake, Shake it before using it, or one will mostly get just the 'Thinner' off of the top of the bottle full. Which will past dust, later on.

The Biggest problem that I have seen with No-Toil vs Petroleum foam air filter oils is after One Full year one almost CAN'T clean the No-Toil oil out of an air filter. And the only thing which will ever clean it Out or Off of your hands is the No-Toil Cleaner.
Don't Allow yourself to run out of the No-Toil Cleaner!!!

Over the past 10 years I've seen more foam air filters come apart at the glue seams during the soap & warm water wash than the petroleum solvent pre-wash. I'll blame cheap Chinese Glue!

UncleJohn,
We need to use Enough SAE40 or stickier like the Bel-Ray/Uni-Filter/Twin-Air/PJ-1,etc to massage thru & thru the foam. And then squeeze out the excess. If you Can't Squeeze some Out, you aren't using Enough!
DPelletier and roadrash83 like this.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 85,000+ miles & counting
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post #10 of 11 Old 05-22-2017, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinyribs View Post
K&N oil on a foam filter is probably too thick. K&N filters are actually pretty bad at filtering, so they require (IMO) a very thick oil to pick up the slack.

There is one brand of foam filter oil called No Toil that I absolutely love. -------------------------------------------------------------------- All other brands of filter oil besides No Toil require petroleum to clean them. Personally, I hate that. And the petroleum eventually just dissolves your filter anyway, especially gasoline.

My wife has no idea what's going on when I'm washing and oiling my filters in the kitchen. It's really that simple.


p.s.- I don't work for No Toil lol. I'm just an extremely satisfied No Toil customer that has a bad history with anything marked K&N.
shinyribs,
I am quite surprised that you wrote your response 'Backwards'.
K&N air filter oil is TOO THIN to use on foam air filters. It Drains Out of the inorganic sponge material, leaving it too dry!
K&N air filters are made of organic surgical Cotton Gauze, sandwiched between two layers of screen. The K&N oil is Absorbed by the cotton.

Your No-Toil oil for FOAM Air Filters is quite a bit tackier / stickyier than most petroleum Foam Air Filter oils, after 30 minutes! But you GOTTA' remember to Shake, shake, Shake it before using it, or one will mostly get just the 'Thinner' off of the top of the bottle full. Which will past dust, later on.

The Biggest problem that I have seen with No-Toil vs Petroleum foam air filter oils is after One Full year one almost CAN'T clean the No-Toil oil out of an air filter. And the only thing which will ever clean it Out or Off of your hands is the No-Toil Cleaner.
Don't Allow yourself to run out of the No-Toil Cleaner!!!

Over the past 10 years I've seen more foam air filters come apart at the glue seams during the soap & warm water wash than the petroleum solvent pre-wash. I'll blame cheap Chinese Glue!

UncleJohn,
We need to use Enough SAE40 or stickier like the Bel-Ray/Uni-Filter/Twin-Air/PJ-1,etc to massage thru & thru the foam. And then squeeze out the excess. If you Can't Squeeze some Out, you aren't using Enough!
Yeah, when using No Toil, you need to follow the directions and use their cleaner. No doubt.

I disagree about the K&N oil being thin. The gauze they use has larger voids than your standard foam filter IME. While it's viscosity may seem a little thinner while applying it, it ultimately needs to be able to span those huge gaps in the gauze. If you use something that thick/dense/ stretchy (or whatever the term would be) on a foam filter, I don't think it'll breathe right.
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