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Problem with Progressive Monotube Fork Kit installation

9K views 19 replies 5 participants last post by  DPelletier 
#1 ·
Hey folks.
Calling all those who have installed Progressive's Monotube Fork kit on 2 gen KLR!

Hoping to depart for 9 days on BDR on the 16th, and I've run into a problem that could really get in the way.

Last Saturday (holiday weekend), while happily installing my new front suspension, the shop music suddenly turned dark.:85a:

Assembling per instructions, I slid the new assemblies in the fork tubes, rotating them to "seat" them at the bottom (sort of expecting to feel a detent or something, but not getting any such satisfaction - even though the instructions don't mention it), applied RED Locktite to the bottom slider bolts (with associated sealing washers) and attempted to tighten them to the specified 29 ft. lbs.

I was lucky if I was getting 5 ft. lbs before the damper rod started to turn withing the cartridge.
Holding the housing static did nothing to stop the damper rod from turning. Compressing the internals (to the extent one guy can while operating a ratchet), also failed. Attempts to remove the bolt were equally fruitless.:surprise:

This is a critical problem, compounded by the use of RED Loctite.

Crap. I called Progressive, but being a holiday weekend, they were out riding. God bless 'em.

I had to get it home, so I reassembled it all knowing fully that I will be doing a much more complicated version of this job again very soon. I kept an eye out for seepage at the bottoms of the fork sliders. They were dry when I got home, but sure enough, today, they both have a film, and one is starting to drip.

I'm hoping Progressive will offer a definitive solution to achieving specified torque, but I really, really, really hope they have a definitive answer as to how I'm going to disassemble this mess...

Has anyone run into this problem?
Any ideas how to get this apart?
Am I in as big a predicament as I think?

I appreciate any ideas or experiences.

Instruction details for any interested:
After removal of the stock springs, spacers etc., Progressive mentions what it calls "Bottoming cups", and I think this is what Clymer refers to as an "oil lock piece" - these did not come out, nor did the springs that Progressive mentions might, but that should simply be put back if they do.

Progressive then instructs that the Monotube assembly be slid into the fork tube "until the monotube is seated at the bottom of it, then put a drop of red thread locking agent onto the bolt that came out of the bottom of the fork and reinstall it (along with the sealing washer)..." then it says to tighten it up to 29 ft. lbs.
 
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#3 · (Edited)
I have no clue, but I know what I would try.

The screw head should be protruding from the bottom of the fork. Carefully put some heat into it to try and break down the Loctite. You have to get the Loctite broken down, as now that it has cured it will hold well over 5 ft-lbs all by itself.

Try to remove the screw. I would use a drill motor to spin a 1/4" drive hex bit as fast as possible rather than using a hand hex key. Sometimes speed helps over come stiction.

If the caps are not threaded into the tubes, fully install them and try the screw.

If that doesn't work, unscrew the monotube cap from the fork tube and pull up on it as hard as you can. While pulling on it, turn the screw.

If that doesn't work, try side-loading the monotube by tilting the monotube. It won't be much, but might help.

After that, I got nothing.

The theory, I think, is that given a clean screw and a clean internal thread in the bottom of the monotube, the screw should run up freely, the bottom of the monotube should suck itself into the bottom of the fork tube, and you should be able to get the final torque. It would probably help if the monotube are fully installed.

I have replaced the stock internals without the recommended holding tool, but the screw and internal threads were squeaky-clean and the screw was free-running in the threads. If the screw hangs up on anything in the internal thread then the internals can start to turn before they bit into the tube.
 
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#4 · (Edited)
Hey thanks for the support guys - I did speak with Progressive today. The rep casually noted that "this sometimes happens". When I told him I had followed the instructions and used red thread locker, he said something along the lines of "OOOOOOoooooh (crap)!..." He went on to ask what revision of instructions I had, and that he was sure they had taken the recommendation for red threadlocker out. Nope. Still there in Revision C.
He seemed genuinely helpful and concerned, and he acknowledged in no uncertain terms that I have a problem on my hands. He initially recommended heat and an impact wrench, but I asked him #1. if I should expect to essentially rebuild my forks - replace all the rubber seals etc, and #2. if I was at risk of detonating the gas charged cylinder into which the damper rod runs. Good point he acknowledged, and said he was going to check with another tech and call me back.

I'll check with him again tomorrow morning.

I'm hoping Progressive will step up and take care of what appears to be a big instructional faux-pas.
I think it's reasonable to ask them to pay my local dealer (from whom I bought the kit) for the removal and correct installation of the kit. I've already done the job once, but I'm willing to remove and replace the forks again, I'm just hoping they'll step up and take care of the potentially dangerous part.

Do I think they'll do it? Having never dealt with them, I honestly do not know, but I'll keep you posted.

If I'm on my own, I will try all of the above and post results. Thanks for those suggestions Tom!
 
#7 ·
An impact wrench has to have something to work against. I'm not sure how hard it is going to hit up against 5ish ft-lb of torque.

I would not think that the gas cylinder would be an issue. It is just nitrogen (inert) and is contained by a seal (i.e., a vent). It is too far from the bottom end to be affected by heat and, even if it were, it would simply pfffft out of the seal if it went over pressure. There would be no risk of it bursting.
 
#14 ·
And another (rare) comparison between the three fork options, though it's for a DR650:

Ive been able to try Cogent DDC's , Race Tech Gold Valve Cartridge Emulators and Ricor Intiminators on the DR650

The Intiminators work great for sealed pavement, they make the DR great to ride on asphalt and really reduce fork dive, if you are doing some light trails too but mostly pavement these work the best.

The Emulators, much better in the rough and can be tuned easily, but not very good on pavement, way too much fork dive and a 'wallowing' front end when the DR is pushed into fast corners, if you are riding purely on rough trails these will do the job, but on asphalt they are not as good as the DDC's, you also need to remove the damper rods from the forks and drill extra holes to allow the oil to flow faster.

The DDC's best of the 3 for me, less fork dive on pavement and handle the rough stuff much better than intiminators without the 'wallowing' feeling of the emulators.

All used with .50 front springs and 130mm fork oil to compare, I have adjusted the oil level slightly with all 3 valves to see if I can find that sweet spot with them, out of the box the DDC's are the best.


I could do with going up to a .525 rate with the DDC's and Emulators as with a full Safari tank there is just a bit too much static sag, .55 springs are too stiff. Im 205lbs in riding gear and prefer the front end to ride a bit harder, my DR is pretty well loaded for backcountry trips for most of my riding. Back end of the DR has a Cogent rebuild, Comp/Rebound damping, hard anodized with an 8.1 spring which has been faultless.

Note that the intiminators ride a lot stiffer than the other 2 valve types with the same rate spring, the .50's are a touch on the stiff side with them for dirt, if I was going to keep using them id switch to a .48, but I need a stiffer rate with the other 2 valves.
 
#17 ·
Dave,

Agree with all of that.

My install of emulators pre-dated Rick's introduction of the DDC. If I had it to do over again I'd go all Cogent.

Still running the progressive rate springs.

I like my suspension enough that it is not on my list of things to fiddle with, but if I ever get around to dumping the progressive rate springs I'll probably give the DDC a try. That's mostly because, with straight rate springs, I'd probably want to attend to some tuning of the emulators. Trying the DDC provides an opportunity to avoid the tuning ;^).
 
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#18 ·
My strongest suggestions to add to the above is, Compress the fork as much as possible after heating the bottom bolt and use the tension/friction of the tip of the Mono-tube against the interior of the lower leg to your advantage.
Probably work with the fork totally up-side down. Have a friend compress the lower leg (Insulated Leather gloves or Welders gloves) and try Not to push down much with the allen driver. And definitely use an impact driver or hammer drill instead of a common drill.
My air impact gets 2 or 3 pretty good hits before spinning an allen driver held firmly between thumb and forefinger. Just squeeze and release the trigger, repeatedly.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Thanks everybody who offered input. You guys rock.
Impact and heat made the job much easier than I'd anticipated.
Here's my tid-bit: I recommend more heat and a wire brush to clean threads of remaining Red Loctite.
Progressive recommended reassembly with an air impact - so the specified torque value goes out the window.
I got on it right after work and I'm finished. Ride tomorrow.

Here are some things Progressive did ok at:
1. Customer service - When I called during business hours, I got someone on the phone within 10 minutes.
2. The guy on the other end had a reasonable idea what he was talking about, but I don't think he really thought through the answers before he gave them.

Here are some things they need to improve;
1. Poor quality of instructions - they NEED to supersede old instructions with new ones - it's as simple as sending a revised sheet to their dealers and asking them to replace the instructions in their stock with the new one.
2. They could improve their instructions by describing what to do when common pitfalls occur - like a spinning damper rod, or how to go about getting the small coil spring back into the slider cup. Or, the fact that you might have to use an impact wrench to get the slider bolt to tighten, so don't get too attached to 29 ft. lbs.

From that experience, and all the alternatives I read about here, I think I'd recommend something other than Progressive.
 
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