Progressive Suspension ? - Page 2 - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions For repair, maintaining or modifying discussions related to the newly updated 2008 and beyond, Generation 2 KLR650 Motorcycle.

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post #11 of 18 Old 05-02-2018, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
...

As far as functionality goes;

- #1) Cogent DDC's
- #2) RT Emulators
- #3) Progressive Monotubes.....though there is a fair gap between #3 and #4
- #4) Progressive springs and heavier oil - the typical KLR "go to" bandaid
- #5) Playing cards in the spokes
- #6) Neon green spoke wraps
- #7) Ricor Intiminators...
Nice write-up Dave, but I had to fix your list a bit.

FWIW, I have the RT Emulators. When I installed them they were pretty much the only game in town when it came to making improvements to damper forks. It was an effort to tune them but the results were remarkable.

Ricor Intiminators were out at the time, but their product description smacked of snake oil with a heavy dose of Wahmbulance about their magic being stolen by others.

I later had an opportunity to try Ricors for a while. They just didn't work. Over washboard, they packed up so badly that it was hard to steer. It seemed that anything that happened fast confused them. They are absolutely untunable without a great deal of effort and a violation of the unwritten "No user serviceable parts inside" concept.

Things progress, new players come on the scene, and new products come to the market. If the opportunity presented itself I would go for the Cogent. The Cogent DDC have quite a few advantages over the RT Emulators. I don't know if they work better once both products are tuned, but they sure seem less fiddly and you've got Rick to send you the DDC pretty well set up for you.
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post #12 of 18 Old 05-02-2018, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Schmitz View Post
Nice write-up Dave, but I had to fix your list a bit.

FWIW, I have the RT Emulators. When I installed them they were pretty much the only game in town when it came to making improvements to damper forks. It was an effort to tune them but the results were remarkable.

Ricor Intiminators were out at the time, but their product description smacked of snake oil with a heavy dose of Wahmbulance about their magic being stolen by others.

I later had an opportunity to try Ricors for a while. They just didn't work. Over washboard, they packed up so badly that it was hard to steer. It seemed that anything that happened fast confused them. They are absolutely untunable without a great deal of effort and a violation of the unwritten "No user serviceable parts inside" concept.

Things progress, new players come on the scene, and new products come to the market. If the opportunity presented itself I would go for the Cogent. The Cogent DDC have quite a few advantages over the RT Emulators. I don't know if they work better once both products are tuned, but they sure seem less fiddly and you've got Rick to send you the DDC pretty well set up for you.

Yeah, I could expand quite a bit based on the dozens of conversations I've had with various people, etc. but I'm always afraid of being too verbose which may prevent people from reading the important bits.

The Intiminators are the only ones I haven't personally tried though I did talk to a few knowledgable people that have compared them to the other products - people I trust (such as yourself) They were the first ones that piqued my interest but after reading the tea leaves, the general lack of good information on their "speed sensitve valving" and reports of poor customer service, I quickly changed my mind. The positives would seem to be that they are easy to install and typically don't require a spring change (according to them which is something that also doesn't make a ton of sense to me). Most that like them either haven't tried the RT or DDC's and/or are heavily biased towards street use and they do apparently work better than most for eliminating brake dive.

My list wasn't "linear"; I think both the DDC's and RT Emulators are close in performance and both are better than anything else out there short of a fork swap (which is a whole 'nother subject!)

Here's my DDC vs. Emulator post:

In the interest of providing a bit more information regarding the original question for those using the search function, I've spent a bit more time researching both the RT gold valve emulators as well as the Cogent DDC's and offer the following;

DDC Advantages:
- no drilling of the damper rods make the DDC's much easier to install
- installation is reversible should you want to return the bike to stock (to sell for eg.)
- the deflective disk damping is said to have more initial plushness and compliance than the spring poppet valve used on the Emulator for compression dampening
- ....and finally the one most people seem to miss: the DDC controls compression AND rebound damping whereas the Emulator completely relies on the stock rebound orifice for rebound. The DDC has to control both since the lighter oil which is used to bypass the compression orifices does the same to the rebound orifices so it was a design necessity but it allows for more flexibility on the rebound damping.

RT Emulator Advantages;
- it is easier to replace/adjust the poppet spring to change compression damping than it is to replace the shim stack.
- you can change oil weight to change rebound damping (though you would need to make the appropriate change/adjustments to the poppet spring or you would likewise change the compression damping at the same time).


The Emulator is a great product designed by a suspension genius that has literally transformed thousands of forks since it's introduction in the early '90's. The RT valve works very well and personally, I wouldn't replace them with DDC's on a bike that was already equipped with the gold valves. That said I think the DDC's are an improvement on the RT valve.


Dave
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post #13 of 18 Old 05-02-2018, 09:06 PM Thread Starter
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All I can say is... WOW !! All I ever wanted to know, AND MORE !
Seriously, thanks a bunch for all that info. You've got me convinced. I'll call Cogent.

Just one more question: Do they include instructions with their kit?

Thanks again.

Ageing Gracefully



2017 Yamaha XT250
1990 Honda NX250 (Green/White)
2011 Kawasaki KLR 650 (Orange & White )

My KLR Page..http://www.powers31.info/2011_KLR650.htm

Mod's to KLR:
Power socket, L.E.D. Battery Indicator, Camera bag holder
Custom Saddlebag frames .
Louder horns, Firstgear Onyx tail bag.
Custom Aluminum Skid Plate.
Cut down seat with Custom pad.
Go Pro Camera mount.
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post #14 of 18 Old 05-03-2018, 09:47 AM
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yes they include instructions but I'd still recommend giving Rick or Todd a call; they will be happy to answer any and all questions.

good luck,

Dave
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post #15 of 18 Old 05-03-2018, 12:45 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks again Dave. I will.
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Ageing Gracefully



2017 Yamaha XT250
1990 Honda NX250 (Green/White)
2011 Kawasaki KLR 650 (Orange & White )

My KLR Page..http://www.powers31.info/2011_KLR650.htm

Mod's to KLR:
Power socket, L.E.D. Battery Indicator, Camera bag holder
Custom Saddlebag frames .
Louder horns, Firstgear Onyx tail bag.
Custom Aluminum Skid Plate.
Cut down seat with Custom pad.
Go Pro Camera mount.
Doo-Hicky
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post #16 of 18 Old 05-12-2018, 06:23 AM Thread Starter
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Suspension

Well I ordered, and installed the Cogent Dynamics kit in my 2011 KLR650.
Big difference! Before I would hit rock, or frost heave, and the front would "whack" against the stops. I took it over a rough abandoned road with a lot of rocks, roots, etc. No more bottoming out.
I should mention that it exaggerated the bounce from my "BAD" Heidenau K60 front tire. That tire made my front bounce before the kit. After the bounce was worse. I replaced the Heidenau with a Bridgestone TW41. No more bounce.

The install went ok. Most difficult part was getting the DDC inserted correctly, and keeping it in place while doing the rest of the process.

Unfortunately, I bought the Heidenau last fall to put on over the winter. Now it's out of RevZilla's warranty, and they only offered to try to get Heidenau to warrantee it. I checked shipping back, and it would cost more to ship back then it's worth.
Any body want a new K60 front tire cheap. (It does bounce, but for off road use, it would be ok.) Only 40 miles on it. (BTW: It balanced with only 1/4 oz weight.)

I have the worse luck with bouncing front tires. Got 2 different Kenda K270's, that bounced a lot. Replaced with a Mitas E07, and again, no more bounce.

Ageing Gracefully



2017 Yamaha XT250
1990 Honda NX250 (Green/White)
2011 Kawasaki KLR 650 (Orange & White )

My KLR Page..http://www.powers31.info/2011_KLR650.htm

Mod's to KLR:
Power socket, L.E.D. Battery Indicator, Camera bag holder
Custom Saddlebag frames .
Louder horns, Firstgear Onyx tail bag.
Custom Aluminum Skid Plate.
Cut down seat with Custom pad.
Go Pro Camera mount.
Doo-Hicky
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post #17 of 18 Old 05-12-2018, 08:51 AM
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Can you get heavy load springs with the cartridges? Me and my normal load is about 400lbs with about 30 in the tool box up front.
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post #18 of 18 Old 05-12-2018, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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Load Springs

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hvymax View Post
Can you get heavy load springs with the cartridges? Me and my normal load is about 400lbs with about 30 in the tool box up front.
Give Todd a call, at Cogent. 828-628-9025
When I talked to him, when ordering, he asked a bunch of questions about my weight, cargo, items bolted to bike, etc. They custom spec. according to all this information.
I'm sure he would be very willing to answer all your questions, and explain the whole process.
I was almost going to take the kit to my local repair guy to install. After talking to Todd, I decided to do it myself. He took the time to explain every step to me.
I took my time, and read instructions, supplied, in kit.

I was concerned when I saw springs were not progressively wound. ( All coils same spacing.) I thought they sent wrong springs. Called him, and found out my downloaded instruction sheet, from internet was for the Gen-1 My kit was correct for my Gen-2, and sheet in kit was the one I should be using. My bad for not looking at heading on both sheets.

BTW: The bike performs great now.
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Ageing Gracefully



2017 Yamaha XT250
1990 Honda NX250 (Green/White)
2011 Kawasaki KLR 650 (Orange & White )

My KLR Page..http://www.powers31.info/2011_KLR650.htm

Mod's to KLR:
Power socket, L.E.D. Battery Indicator, Camera bag holder
Custom Saddlebag frames .
Louder horns, Firstgear Onyx tail bag.
Custom Aluminum Skid Plate.
Cut down seat with Custom pad.
Go Pro Camera mount.
Doo-Hicky
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