Progressive Suspension ? - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions For repair, maintaining or modifying discussions related to the newly updated 2008 and beyond, Generation 2 KLR650 Motorcycle.

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post #1 of 18 Old 04-29-2018, 02:46 PM Thread Starter
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Progressive Suspension ?

What, or how much difference is there between the progressive Suspension Fork Spring Kit $103.95, and their Monotube Cartridge Kit $339.99?
Softer ride, bottoming resistance, damping, etc. I'm not into hard riding on rough trails. I just want a nice ride, and not bottom out on potholes, rocks, etc. I don't ride hard on the road, so excessive cornering isn't much of a concern.
Most of my riding is back gravel roads, broken paved roads, and such.

On another, somewhat related issue, Does suspension dampening play much into helping suppress unbalance in front end?

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2017 Yamaha XT250
1990 Honda NX250 (Green/White)
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My KLR Page..http://www.powers31.info/2011_KLR650.htm

Mod's to KLR:
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post #2 of 18 Old 04-29-2018, 08:28 PM
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Larry, Dave Pelletier will tell you that the Cogent Dynamics DDC's & Springs is Better & easier to install.

I have not ridden either set-up.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 84,000+ miles & counting
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post #3 of 18 Old 04-30-2018, 09:45 AM
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The difference between the Progressive springs and the damper replacement type setups is the springs are a cheap bandaid and the damper/emulator setups work much better. That said (and as Paul forecasted!), the Monotubes are in a distant forth place in such setups with the Cogent DDC's, Racetech Cartridge Emulator and Ricor Intiminators all offering better action with more reliability. Of those three, the DDC's are a no-brainer as they are at least as good as the second place untis (RT) but have a far easier, and reversible, install. http://www.motocd.com/product/ddc-complete-package/

as far as the other questions go; proper damping with the appropriate springs makes the bike far more controlled and less upset by bumps and obstacles; fork dive is reduced, bottoming resistance is improved and the bike is far more stable. IMO, suspension improvements are, by far, the single most noticable functional change you can make to a KLR.


cheers,
Dave
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post #4 of 18 Old 05-01-2018, 09:09 PM Thread Starter
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Suspension

Thanks for reply's.

Can you explain what that blue cap? does, in the pix on the Cogent page?
I assume their kit consists of the spring, oil, and that cap?. Is it something that is adjustable for dampening?
Their site doesn't explain much. Are they guaranteed?

Sorry if I'm asking a lot of questions, but i've never messed around with suspension.

Ageing Gracefully



2017 Yamaha XT250
1990 Honda NX250 (Green/White)
2011 Kawasaki KLR 650 (Orange & White )

My KLR Page..http://www.powers31.info/2011_KLR650.htm

Mod's to KLR:
Power socket, L.E.D. Battery Indicator, Camera bag holder
Custom Saddlebag frames .
Louder horns, Firstgear Onyx tail bag.
Custom Aluminum Skid Plate.
Cut down seat with Custom pad.
Go Pro Camera mount.
Doo-Hicky
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post #5 of 18 Old 05-01-2018, 09:33 PM
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larry31,
When I click on the link, I see the "Blue" DDC's (Deflective Disc Components?) , a pair of springs & a couple of quarts of 5W fork oil.
Cogent does offer Preload Adjustable fork caps for riders which carry passengers occasionally!
I don't think you would benefit from them, imho.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 84,000+ miles & counting
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post #6 of 18 Old 05-02-2018, 12:41 AM
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could not tell you anything about the "Cogent DDC's, Racetech Cartridge Emulator and Ricor Intiminators" only about the monotube that installed on my bike when they came out and i am completely satisfied with them. Think i paid $220 ship to my home. No maintenance as they are sealed. my .02

Last edited by akrider; 05-02-2018 at 12:45 AM.
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post #7 of 18 Old 05-02-2018, 05:41 AM Thread Starter
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Suspension?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
larry31,
When I click on the link, I see the "Blue" DDC's (Deflective Disc Components?) , a pair of springs & a couple of quarts of 5W fork oil.
Cogent does offer Preload Adjustable fork caps for riders which carry passengers occasionally!
I don't think you would benefit from them, imho.
Maybe I didn't call them by correct name. The blue things.. (DDC's "defective Disc Components" ) are what I'm referring to. What are those blue things, and just what are they?

Ageing Gracefully



2017 Yamaha XT250
1990 Honda NX250 (Green/White)
2011 Kawasaki KLR 650 (Orange & White )

My KLR Page..http://www.powers31.info/2011_KLR650.htm

Mod's to KLR:
Power socket, L.E.D. Battery Indicator, Camera bag holder
Custom Saddlebag frames .
Louder horns, Firstgear Onyx tail bag.
Custom Aluminum Skid Plate.
Cut down seat with Custom pad.
Go Pro Camera mount.
Doo-Hicky
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post #8 of 18 Old 05-02-2018, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larry31 View Post
Maybe I didn't call them by correct name. The blue things.. (DDC's "defective Disc Components" ) are what I'm referring to. What are those blue things, and just what are they?
The DDC's are a device that takes over the damping from the stock damper rod orifices. The DDC's and Intiminators do this by using a lighter weight oil which has minimal restriction through the stock damper rod holes; the Racetech Cartridge Emulators use a heavier oil so to bypass the damper rods you drill them out to a larger size which effectively eliminates the damper rod compression function. The difference between these two approaches is why the RT Emulators are harder to install and can't be removed.

As to the why damper rods and the cartridge style devices are different; they use a different means of damping. In the case of the DDC's they use a series of deflective disks over fixed ports for compression damping and a spring poppet assy for rebound. The defective discs are the same technology used in a modern shock and offer adjustable, variable and far more compliant damping than the more progressive effects of the damper rods. by progressive, I mean that the damper rods are too progressive; what you really want is digressive which dials down the damping on high speed impacts. The overly progressive damper rods are mushy at low speed (fork action not mph!) and harsh at high speed; all because the damping is directly related to the velocity of the fork oil through the fixed openings. Conversely the discs in the DDC's open more in response to a high speed impact, thereby lessening the damping and creating a different (digressive) damping curve.....and the selection of the discs determines the shape of the curve.

The limitations of the damper rods is one of the reasons people install progressive springs in their forks in an attempt to maintain initial plushness and increase bottoming resistance and while this works to a point, it's a poor alternative to having proper modern damping curve and using the right straight or dual rate springs.

The damper rod forks in our bikes take their technology straight from the stone age; all modern offroad bikes and most higher end motorcycles use a cartridge fork. The cartridge fork uses the same type of deflective disk technology that the Cogent DDC's do. The only reason our bikes come with damper rod forks is because of cost. The single biggest functional change you can make to your KLR is suspension upgrades; from the damper rod forks and emulsion shock to a proper damping cartridge and a quality DeCarbon style shock.

In case my response isn't technical enough; Damping Rod Forks

I've also done a little write up of the differences between the DDC's and RT Emulators if you're interested.

As far as functionality goes;

- #1) Cogent DDC's
- #2) RT Emulators
- #3) Ricor Intiminators
- #4) Progressive Monotubes.....though there is a fair gap between #3 and #4
- #5) Progressive springs and heavier oil - the typical KLR "go to" bandaid


Hope this helps, feel free to ask my anything you're not clear on as KLR suspension is a bit of a passion of mine.

Cheers,
Dave
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Last edited by DPelletier; 05-02-2018 at 10:26 AM.
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post #9 of 18 Old 05-02-2018, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
larry31,
When I click on the link, I see the "Blue" DDC's (Deflective Disc Components?) , a pair of springs & a couple of quarts of 5W fork oil.
Cogent does offer Preload Adjustable fork caps for riders which carry passengers occasionally!
I don't think you would benefit from them, imho.
...and FWIW, DDC stands for "Drop-in Damper Cartridge"

:-)
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post #10 of 18 Old 05-02-2018, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larry31 View Post
Thanks for reply's.

Can you explain what that blue cap? does, in the pix on the Cogent page?
I assume their kit consists of the spring, oil, and that cap?. Is it something that is adjustable for dampening?
Their site doesn't explain much. Are they guaranteed?

Sorry if I'm asking a lot of questions, but i've never messed around with suspension.
And to answer your questions more specifically;

- I think I've adequately explained what the DDC "that cap" does
- kit consists of the DDC, springs, oil and pre-cut preload spacers
- the dampers are adjustable but only by changing the deflective disks (the one advantage of the RT Emulators). Cogent will ensure you get the right damping, springs and preload spacers when you order as they will ask you some questions regarding usage and loading. you can also vary the suspension action by adjusting the oil height (air spring) and properly setting preload.
- they are guaranteed; for the specifics on any guarantee, contact Cogent. What I can tell you is that they are a relatively small company (compared to Racetech, Progressive, etc.) that caters to a smaller market niche.....their customer service is absolutely stellar and you can actually phone and speak to the man himself. Both Rick and Todd are great to deal with and have a wealth of knowledge.

Dave
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