will not turn over - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions For repair, maintaining or modifying discussions related to the newly updated 2008 and beyond, Generation 2 KLR650 Motorcycle.

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post #1 of 15 Old 12-16-2018, 02:43 PM Thread Starter
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will not turn over

just picked a 08 a couple weeks back.
bike lost all power on way home from work. I found 20 amp fuse blown.
I put in spare and starter started to runaway. I pulled + battery cable and got it towed home. I replaced lower starter solenoid. I'm aware 08-09 have wire harness issues. bike will power up but will not turn over. I jumped out clutch/sidestand switches too. I ohmed out starter button getting 20 ohms with run switch to on and 36 ohms when off.
shouldn't it be open line when switch is off?
I measured wires 3&4 that come out of upper starter relay. they show continuity also when switch is off or in run. the resistance changes when button is pushed but I thought it would be open line if run/start switch was in off. kinda lost.
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post #2 of 15 Old 12-16-2018, 08:02 PM
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Here's a link to RoberTX's '08 and up WIRING DIAGRAM:

https://redirect.viglink.com/?format...3D%2F%3Fref%3D

With this and a multi-meter, I think you have the tools to diagnose your problem.

Good luck!

EDIT: Tom Schmitz has posted, "handy spec sheets" on the Generation 2 "Wrenching" thread; the .pdf documents in Post # 1 on that thread contain a Generation 2 wiring diagram and other useful info: https://www.klrforum.com/2008-klr650...3-18-16-a.html
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Last edited by Damocles; 12-17-2018 at 04:14 AM.
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post #3 of 15 Old 12-16-2018, 10:53 PM
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OK, troubleshooting over the internet is hard. We've had threads go for weeks before we figured out what the problem was. It took 184 posts before we figured out why Ilya's clutch wouldn't work.

What helps is being precise in our terms and having a common understanding of those terms.

For example, when you say "won't turn over" what that means to me is that when you push the starter button the engine will not turn. As in:
1) there is a clicking noise, but nothing else happens (dead battery is the problem)
2) there is a grinding horrible noise (the starter gear train is AFU)
3) there is a grunting noise and you cannot get the engine to turn even by pushing the bike with it in gear (engine is seized)

Yet you say that when you replaced the fuse the starter spun (and I have to assume the engine rotated as well), so I don't think that's what you meant. This leads to confusion.

You also refer to "ohming out" the starter button and "wires 3&4". That doesn't help because we don't know which wires you checked, where they were, and if your "3&4" is based upon looking at the relay or looking at the schematic and if you are figuring "3&4" to be counted from right to left, left to right, or some clock direction.

Don't take offense; Spock once famously said "This thing you call language though, most remarkable. You depend on it for so very much. But is any one of you really its master?" and we're all at the mercy of using common terms. Unfortunately, we have to define them to have a fruitful conversation. You can do that by describing what you mean when you use a term.

Let's look at the starter and kill switch. On the right-hand side of the handlebars, there is a connector with four wires. They are Blue/White, Brown, Brown/White, and Yellow/Red. If you check the Brown to the Brown/White you should have 0 ohms with the kill switch in the "Run" position and an open circuit with it in the "Off" position. If you check the Brown/White to the Yellow you should have an open circuit. When you press the starter circuit you should have 0 ohms. Checking the Brown to the Yellow/Red you should have an open circuit until you push the starter switch; then you should have 0 ohms. This confirms that the switch block works right. The Blue/White is the brake switch; this should not be part of your problem but its function is checked between Blue/White and Brown.

You are probably checking the starter switch between some Brown wire somewhere and the Yellow/Red wire somewhere. Where is important. The Yellow/Red wire is connected to both the armature and the coil of the Starter Circuit Relay. If you have a short someplace you may be checking the resistance of that coil.

There is a "3&4" on the Starter Circuit Relay. If you check those with the relay unplugged you would be checking the armature of the relay and that should be an open circuit. However, if you are checking them in the harness, #3, the Black wire, goes directly and indirectly to all kinds of places, and the Yellow/Red wire goes not only from the starter switch to the Starter Circuit Relay but to the igniter as well.

With a passive test and the possibility of a short somewhere, you just don't know what you are checking or what the readings mean.

What this means is that it is important to isolate components when checking.

Frankly, I think you should be looking, first, for some chafing and a bare wire in the wiring loom. The switches and components are fairly robust. Start with the obvious, which in the case of the '08 is in the vicinity of the regulator/horn/overflow tank support brackets. There are some sharp edges there. There are also sharp edges by the main fuse/starter relay. There are some pictures in this thread: https://www.klrforum.com/2008-klr650...tml#post675177 and Paul Westman included some more thorough information than what is in those pictures (which are very old).

A couple of years ago I was on a multi-day ride and things went all wonky with turn signals and such. It took a while but this is what I found:


Keep coming at us with info and we will help as best we can.
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Sting like a butterfly.

Last edited by Tom Schmitz; 12-16-2018 at 11:38 PM.
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post #4 of 15 Old 12-16-2018, 11:27 PM
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Well . . . the battery's hot enough at least to blow the 20-amp main fuse!



I jest; all good points in the preceding post above.

The starter circuit remains somewhat complex; what with the starting circuit relay as well as the starter relay; with safety switch protocol (although I understand safety switches have been disabled) required for starter motor activation, etc.

Jumping the starter relay (+ 12 VDC to the small control voltage terminal) remains a credible business-end test procedure; may tell if the battery is low; the engine is seized/starting geartrain honked up/starter relay malfunctioning; if the engine "turns over" during this procedure, the problem lies elsewhere in the circuitry.

Last edited by Damocles; 12-16-2018 at 11:31 PM.
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post #5 of 15 Old 12-17-2018, 08:19 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Schmitz View Post
OK, troubleshooting over the internet is hard. We've had threads go for weeks before we figured out what the problem was. It took 184 posts before we figured out why Ilya's clutch wouldn't work.

What helps is being precise in our terms and having a common understanding of those terms.

For example, when you say "won't turn over" what that means to me is that when you push the starter button the engine will not turn. As in:
1) there is a clicking noise, but nothing else happens (dead battery is the problem)
2) there is a grinding horrible noise (the starter gear train is AFU)
3) there is a grunting noise and you cannot get the engine to turn even by pushing the bike with it in gear (engine is seized)

Yet you say that when you replaced the fuse the starter spun (and I have to assume the engine rotated as well), so I don't think that's what you meant. This leads to confusion.

You also refer to "ohming out" the starter button and "wires 3&4". That doesn't help because we don't know which wires you checked, where they were, and if your "3&4" is based upon looking at the relay or looking at the schematic and if you are figuring "3&4" to be counted from right to left, left to right, or some clock direction.

Don't take offense; Spock once famously said "This thing you call language though, most remarkable. You depend on it for so very much. But is any one of you really its master?" and we're all at the mercy of using common terms. Unfortunately, we have to define them to have a fruitful conversation. You can do that by describing what you mean when you use a term.

Let's look at the starter and kill switch. On the right-hand side of the handlebars, there is a connector with four wires. They are Blue/White, Brown, Brown/White, and Yellow/Red. If you check the Brown to the Brown/White you should have 0 ohms with the kill switch in the "Run" position and an open circuit with it in the "Off" position. If you check the Brown/White to the Yellow you should have an open circuit. When you press the starter circuit you should have 0 ohms. Checking the Brown to the Yellow/Red you should have an open circuit until you push the starter switch; then you should have 0 ohms. This confirms that the switch block works right. The Blue/White is the brake switch; this should not be part of your problem but its function is checked between Blue/White and Brown.

You are probably checking the starter switch between some Brown wire somewhere and the Yellow/Red wire somewhere. Where is important. The Yellow/Red wire is connected to both the armature and the coil of the Starter Circuit Relay. If you have a short someplace you may be checking the resistance of that coil.

There is a "3&4" on the Starter Circuit Relay. If you check those with the relay unplugged you would be checking the armature of the relay and that should be an open circuit. However, if you are checking them in the harness, #3, the Black wire, goes directly and indirectly to all kinds of places, and the Yellow/Red wire goes not only from the starter switch to the Starter Circuit Relay but to the igniter as well.

With a passive test and the possibility of a short somewhere, you just don't know what you are checking or what the readings mean.

What this means is that it is important to isolate components when checking.

Frankly, I think you should be looking, first, for some chafing and a bare wire in the wiring loom. The switches and components are fairly robust. Start with the obvious, which in the case of the '08 is in the vicinity of the regulator/horn/overflow tank support brackets. There are some sharp edges there. There are also sharp edges by the main fuse/starter relay. There are some pictures in this thread: https://www.klrforum.com/2008-klr650...tml#post675177 and Paul Westman included some more thorough information than what is in those pictures (which are very old).

A couple of years ago I was on a multi-day ride and things went all wonky with turn signals and such. It took a while but this is what I found:


Keep coming at us with info and we will help as best we can.
many thanks for helping out on my language skills. I will improve. I will update with more info when I get off from work.
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post #6 of 15 Old 12-17-2018, 04:38 PM Thread Starter
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I found problem. I had no power to off/run switch with key to on, neutral light lit. I backtracked brown wire and found this. I actually saw a small wisp of smoke too!
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post #7 of 15 Old 12-17-2018, 05:03 PM
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Well, that's ugly but you did find the problem!

Tom [email protected]

“I lit a cigarette and dragged a smoking stand beside the chair. The minutes went by on tiptoe, with their fingers to their lips.” -Philip Marlowe

“'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used.” -Napoleon Bonaparte


Sting like a butterfly.
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post #8 of 15 Old 12-18-2018, 10:09 AM
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Good for finding the problem, but I would like to know what might have been the cause? This to prevent it from happening or happening again.

The man on top of the mountain didn’t fall there.
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post #9 of 15 Old 12-18-2018, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dicky View Post
Good for finding the problem, but I would like to know what might have been the cause? This to prevent it from happening or happening again.
the 08/09 klrs had a recall to repair/replace/reroute harness. some of the gussets where this was located where sharp. this vid will help. i plan on following the vid and doing more on trouble spots.
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Last edited by maverick9611; 12-18-2018 at 10:46 AM.
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post #10 of 15 Old 12-18-2018, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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