Vehicle Wiring: Actuation Speed Sensing on SPST Switch - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 04-28-2019, 11:39 AM Thread Starter
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Vehicle Wiring: Actuation Speed Sensing on SPST Switch

I want to add a set of auxiliary lights to the beast, and I'd like to integrate their switching with existing hardware rather than add another switch. The functionality I have in mind revolves around the high beam switch, and is described as:

A. Vehicle includes high beam light.
B. Vehicle includes auxiliary light (this is spot/fog light).

N = ~3 (ideally, this would be tunable and set during testing)

1. Vehicle is running, low beam is on (continuous), high beam and auxiliary light are off.
2. User flips high beam switch ON; high beam turns on.
3. User flips high beam switch OFF; high beam turns off.
4. User waits less than N seconds.
5. User flips high beam switch ON; high beam and auxiliary light turn on.
6. User flips high beam switch OFF; high beam and auxiliary light turn off.
7. User waits more than N seconds.
8. User flips high beam switch ON; high beam and auxiliary light turn on.
9. User flips high beam switch OFF; high beam and auxiliary light turn off.
10. User waits less than N seconds.
11. User flips high beam switch ON; high beam turns on; auxiliary light remains off.
12. User flips high beam switch OFF; high beam turns off.

+++

Put another way, from the ON position on the highbeam switch, flipping the switch quickly off then on again changes the status of the auxiliary light's response to the switch, latching and unlatching it with regard to the switch.

If the high beam is on WITHOUT the auxiliary, the user can turn the auxiliary on by quickly flipping the high beam off then on again (high beam is also on after quick-flip).

If the high beam is on WITH the auxiliary, the user can turn the auxiliary off by doing the same (high beam is on alone after the quick-flip).

In all cases where the high beam is on with the auxiliary, if the user turns the high beam off the auxiliary also turns off. The question is whether the user then waits more or less than N seconds to turn the high beam on again. If more, the auxiliary also comes back on. If less, the auxiliary does not come back on.

In case this is not clear, the high beam can be on without the auxiliary, but the auxiliary cannot be on without the high beam.

+++

I was wondering if some forum members would be so kind as to offer ideas about a few different approaches to getting this done. Tom mentioned that a 555 timer would be helpful. Looking at the 555 page at Wikipedia, I'm seeing a "bistable" mode that looks promising, but I'm not exactly clear on how that would work. I do have some specific design questions deriving from the explanation there, but it seems premature to ask them.

I think this could easily be accomplished with an Arduino, but I don't like the idea of the extra complication and bulk. But I'm open to hearing ideas along these lines.

+++

Thank you in advance!

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post #2 of 20 Old 04-28-2019, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samuel View Post
I want to add a set of auxiliary lights to the beast, and I'd like to integrate their switching with existing hardware rather than add another switch. The functionality I have in mind revolves around the high beam switch, and is described as:

A. Vehicle includes high beam light.
B. Vehicle includes auxiliary light (this is spot/fog light).

N = ~3 (ideally, this would be tunable and set during testing)

1. Vehicle is running, low beam is on (continuous), high beam and auxiliary light are off.
2. User flips high beam switch ON; high beam turns on.
3. User flips high beam switch OFF; high beam turns off.
4. User waits less than N seconds.
5. User flips high beam switch ON; high beam and auxiliary light turn on.
6. User flips high beam switch OFF; high beam and auxiliary light turn off.
7. User waits more than N seconds.
8. User flips high beam switch ON; high beam and auxiliary light turn on.
9. User flips high beam switch OFF; high beam and auxiliary light turn off.
10. User waits less than N seconds.
11. User flips high beam switch ON; high beam turns on; auxiliary light remains off.
12. User flips high beam switch OFF; high beam turns off.

+++

Put another way, from the ON position on the highbeam switch, flipping the switch quickly off then on again changes the status of the auxiliary light's response to the switch, latching and unlatching it with regard to the switch.

If the high beam is on WITHOUT the auxiliary, the user can turn the auxiliary on by quickly flipping the high beam off then on again (high beam is also on after quick-flip).

If the high beam is on WITH the auxiliary, the user can turn the auxiliary off by doing the same (high beam is on alone after the quick-flip).

In all cases where the high beam is on with the auxiliary, if the user turns the high beam off the auxiliary also turns off. The question is whether the user then waits more or less than N seconds to turn the high beam on again. If more, the auxiliary also comes back on. If less, the auxiliary does not come back on.

In case this is not clear, the high beam can be on without the auxiliary, but the auxiliary cannot be on without the high beam.

+++

I was wondering if some forum members would be so kind as to offer ideas about a few different approaches to getting this done. Tom mentioned that a 555 timer would be helpful. Looking at the 555 page at Wikipedia, I'm seeing a "bistable" mode that looks promising, but I'm not exactly clear on how that would work. I do have some specific design questions deriving from the explanation there, but it seems premature to ask them.

I think this could easily be accomplished with an Arduino, but I don't like the idea of the extra complication and bulk. But I'm open to hearing ideas along these lines.

+++

Thank you in advance!
You mean like this: Autoswitch Lighting Controllers

I have one on my BMW which conveniently has separate turn signal switches with a cancel switch that is also separate and does nothing else so it is great to use for the trigger.
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post #3 of 20 Old 04-28-2019, 07:54 PM
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Aux Light

You may want to consider, if you want to flash your lights to, maybe, warn oncoming traffic of something, how this would effect your light system. Just throwing it out there for consideration.
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post #4 of 20 Old 04-28-2019, 10:55 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by larry31 View Post
You may want to consider, if you want to flash your lights to, maybe, warn oncoming traffic of something, how this would effect your light system. Just throwing it out there for consideration.
Indeed my friend. But if I'm riding along with high beams off and I flash my lights "on, off" once there will be no activation of this system. Only if I flash them "off, on" will there be a change. That's one of the reasons I'm looking at this pattern.

Repeated flashes would activate this, though. Starting from lowbeam, flashing "on off on," for example, would bring the aux on with the high beams with the second "on." Flashing a bunch and starting from lowbeams only, the bike would look like this:

low
high
low
high-aux
low
high
low
high-aux


Every other high beam flash would have aux as well.

:::

I know the Arduino approach here would be fairly straightforward. While I'm no expert, I have programmed one before. I can imagine a scenario where each "on to off" event on a particular pin resets a timer variable to 0, then the arduino adds to this variable in each frame (Arduino programs run in a loop of frames, so they're constantly iterating over code), then when it sees an "off to on" event, it compares the time variable against the "setting" variable, and if the timer is lower than the setting, it toggles between high/low on a pin which controls a relay. It may turn out that I go this route with a small-form-factor Arduino and call it good.

But I'm curious to work with the 555 chip, although I imagine it would be more complicated. The insight I can come up with myself in this area is considerably less complete. I know the 555 can send pulses for a set amount of time. I imagine these can be sent in response to a drop in voltage (i.e., when the switch goes off). The problem I have is envisioning the toggle solution. The 555 can give me voltage that endures for a particular time, but what would then compare the change in voltage in one spot (from the light turning on) against a charge in another spot (from the 555 timer which started when the light turned off) and apply a voltage to a third spot (the relay) if the first two spots both have voltage? What kind of component would this be?

The reason I'm interested in the analog approach is because currently the KLR has no microprocessor and I like that about it. It would be bitchin to keep the concept pure. That being said, the Arduino would also allow some cool special effects (strobing, brightness controls, etc., all controllable via this über simple double-click on the switch). Even so, I would like to keep the bike analog if possible.

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post #5 of 20 Old 04-28-2019, 11:11 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
That could very well be it, thank you! I've written to them and we'll see what they say.

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post #6 of 20 Old 04-29-2019, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by samuel View Post
That could very well be it, thank you! I've written to them and we'll see what they say.
I am curious as to what you find. I actually have never used mine after I installed it as I decided when I later added my auxiliary lights to run them off the high beam so that they went out when I switched to low beam for oncoming traffic. However, the status indicator LED still works so I think the Autoswitch still works.

It was tailor made for the BMW with its three switch turn signal system as the cancel button is intended to be a momentary switch which is ideal for the Autoswitch.

As an aside, when I first got my BMW, I thought the turn signal switch design was crazy. I had ridden Kawasaki’s since 1973 and it just seemed nuts to have three separate switches when one would do. Well, after riding 12 years now on the BMW and adding the KLR to my stable, I now have to switch. (pun intended) back and forth between the two systems. I found that I much prefer the BMW approach. It is very natural to push your right thumb to turn right and your left to turn left. And even cancelling with the right thumb is pretty easy, although the LT has self-cancelling signals so I rarely need to cancel manually. And the BMW switches are large and easy to find even with winter gloves. I now find the KLR single switch to be much harder to use, particularly with heavy gloves on in cold weather. Often, I think I have cancelled the signals only to find them still flashing, because there is so little tactile feedback from that tiny switch.

I think BMW got this right, but even they succumbed to the pressure to standardize and I believe their new models all have the Japanese style switch now. At least I am pretty sure the K1600s I have rented in Europe have all had the single switch on the left handlebar.
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post #7 of 20 Old 04-29-2019, 07:51 AM
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You could do that with a NodeMCU using "if" statements based upon the amount of time (in milliseconds) the button was pushed. You'd have to de-bounce the button. You could even control the lights from the internet using Alexa for that matter. Seems like a lot of effort to control lights.

I've got an ESP8266 mounted n my truck that opens my gate anytime the truck is within range. I considered putting one of the bike with a proximity detector that would beep if someone got close to the bike as a warning alarm but that's me just playing.

ESP's are handy little devices and I'm using them all over the house to controls lights and stereo inputs. I blame them and Alexa for my weight gain.

They'd be great to control LED's that you mounts as a light show on the bike. I programmed one that controls some addressable LED strips and simulates fireworks. May use it in the Grandkids playground.

They'd work great as a turn signal cancel. You could program it to cancel the turn signal after so many flashes.
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Last edited by Toney; 04-29-2019 at 08:38 AM.
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post #8 of 20 Old 04-29-2019, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
You mean like this: Autoswitch Lighting Controllers...
Hmm, interesting. Two of those could replace the switch-box-on-a-stalk on my RT. I might have to consider that, even though it would mean taking the 30+ screws out to get the Tupperware off.

It's due for that soon, anyway, so maybe.

Thanks for the tip.

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post #9 of 20 Old 04-29-2019, 12:20 PM
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Hmm, interesting. Two of those could replace the switch-box-on-a-stalk on my RT. I might have to consider that, even though it would mean taking the 30+ screws out to get the Tupperware off.;

It's due for that soon, anyway, so maybe.

Thanks for the tip.

Only 30? That’s nothing. Must be close to 60 on my LT. The stingray has 4 screws. Each wind deflector has 3. Ground lights each have 2, as do the rubber bumper covers and then 3 each for the chrome trim piece. One screw only for the turn signal lens, but then 9 plus a grommet for each side panel. That’s 44 just for the upper part, and that isn’t including the nose fairing. Then the lower fairing has 10 screws in the center section and I think another 5-6 in each lower side. So, probably at least 60. I have gotten it down to about an hour to fully strip the LT for maintenance.

One good thing was it really made me appreciate the KLR. I was able to remove the seat, fuel tank and all of the plastic in about 30 minutes and that was with the “figuring it out” time for my first time through. The hardest part was getting the two hoses off of the petcock! It is a real pleasure to work on the KLR.
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post #10 of 20 Old 04-29-2019, 01:25 PM
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Install a flat washer over the nib on the pet coco, then install the hose. Next time use the washer to push the hose off.

Hoses push off easier than they pull off.
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