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Looking for ignition switch guidance

12K views 14 replies 4 participants last post by  Toney 
#1 ·
Greetings, New to the forum. Bought a new 2018 KLR to add to the fleet of bikes and vehicles. Have a question concerning the ignition switch. Looking to do some modifications however I've ran into a road block.Have on order and waiting to receive the shop manual thought I might ask the forum members. The ignition switch has a constant 12 volts coming from the main fuse on the white wire. There's a switched 12 volts from the ignition switch on the brown wire. Then there's two additional wires (black/yellow and black/white) which control the eCDI portion. On the switch side (black/yellow and black/white) has around 90 ohms when the ignition is turned on and goes to a short condition when the ignition is off. Measured voltage at each of the wires and found black/white to have around 1.35 volts and black/yellow to have close to zero volts (to be anticipated due to black/yellow being grounded to the frame). So on to my question; does anyone have knowledge of the ignition switch and the actual circuitry contained within the ignition switch for the black/yellow and black/white wires?

Thanks,

Chris
 
#3 ·
There is a 100-ohm resistor soldered across the terminals of the ignition switch plate. The resistor is not mentioned in the manual nor does it appear on the wiring diagram.
 
#4 ·
I assumed, due to my measurements, there was a resistor in / on the ignition switch. Voltage on the black white supposed to be 12 V? Read the ignition has changed a tad bit - no longer grounded to shut it off - is now shut off via cutting the power.

Thanks,

Chris
 
#6 ·
You're right about the kill mechanism: Generation 1, ground AC to CDI, both kill switch and ignition off; Generation 2, interrupt 12 VDC to ignition coil (I think; no speeka much Generation 2).

I am aware . . . Generation 1 has CDI ignition, basically, a capacitive ignition system; Generation 2 has "Fully-Transistorized Breakerless Ignition," basically, an inductive ignition system.

I share Tom Schmitz's curiosity; what are you trying to do?
 
#5 ·
I'd love to help you out with this, but I can't. I have a Gen 2 but I installed a Gen 1 ignition.

When I was mucking about getting a kick-starter installed on the Gen 2 ignition I did a lot of weird-science stuff, but it was with an igniter on the bench. You can read about it in the first several posts in this thread: https://www.klrforum.com/2008-klr65...ns/57858-kick-start;-there-he-goes-again.html. I never took on-the-bike readings of the igniter pinout.

All I can offer is that, yeah, it's probably supposed to be that way since it's a brand-new bike and all, but I can't go to my bike and take the measurement. I did have to remove that resistor when I converted to a Gen 1 ignition system.

What is it that you are trying to do?
 
#7 ·
Main goal is to change the key switch to a non-working element. I would like to add a hidden button that can be triggered via proximity; very similar to the push button ignitions found in today's automobiles. The road block is understanding the current design of the ignition switch without ripping it completely apart.
 
#8 ·
I'd think a Generation 2 wiring diagram would be your friend; however . . . don't know how you'd sort out the logic matrix (as in, Park, etc.) with the system you propose.

I don't know how these proximity systems work; Hall Effect switching relays? Got 'em on the kickstand kill mechanisms of my KTMs, but not on any ignition activating systems on any vehicles I own.
 
#9 ·
The wiring diagram is not providing much information. When I disconnect the Black/White wire from the wiring connector, that leads to the ignition switch, the bike doesn't start with the key in the run position. With the Black/White wire connected as original the bike does start with the key in the run position. So I'm a little perplexed as the wiring diagram shows the Black/White is not electrically connected to the Black/Yellow wire while in the run position. However testing reveals otherwise. I believe there may be additional elements (100 ohm resistor to ground for the CDI portion) in the picture that precludes the would be thief from simply cutting (opening circuits) and shorting a few wires to hot wire the bike. As far as the proximity start it's a simple board with a few relays and a RF transceiver to detect the key fob. Very easy to fab up - just need to make sure it's somewhat secure so a would be thief cannot easily pick up and decode the RF transmissions between the key fob and main module on the bike.
 
#11 ·
The wiring diagram is not providing much information.
Thanks for sharing information on the key fob sensor, chirsb009!

Interesting project, offering some satisfaction when completed.

I'd consider the risk of theft, myself, prior to expending effort and expense on theft-proofing by key fob. Around my neighborhood, KLR650s aren't likely to be stolen. A hidden single-pole, single-throw switch might deter joy riders and ride-away thieves.

Late-model KTM1290 Super Adventures have key-fob ignition activators, a source of rider maintenance woes on the model's ADV website. However, the systems are factory-warrantied (of limited immediate value for riders broken down in, say, greater Skunk's Misery, Arkansas!).

Regardless, key fob ignitions for all vehicles likely are the wave of the future--rode a, "CFMOTO" ATV around my dealer's parking lot while awaiting maintenance; the buggy had a key-fob actuated ignition.

Best wishes on your project; keep us informed of your progress!
 
#10 ·
If you're not in a BFH I can do a "How to take it apart and put it back together" post as I did on the Gen 1 switch.

I believe that the switch is just as shown in the wiring diagram save for the unshown 100Ω resistor* that gets switched in between Bk/W and Bk/Y, but I'll verify that and draw up a DPST-type diagram that shows it.

Mimicking that switch in a proximity box should be quite simple, as you say.

Probably couldn't get to it for a week. I'm up to my elbows in both the Juki DNU-1541 and making hot KLR oil.

*I have always thought it was hilarious that KHI put that resistor in to foil the thieves and figured that they would keep it a secret by not including it in the wiring diagram. Every miscreant with any thought of stealing bikes came from the womb knowing that trick.
 
#12 · (Edited)
So - after some additional monkeying around this morning I believe I may have found the proper mix of elements. I ground the Black/White to the battery ground post using a 100 ohm resistor (this time I bypassed the Black/Yellow ground in the wiring harness leading back to the bike). Then simply provided an electrical connection between White and Brown wires within the harness. Bike fired up successfully. I'll do some additional testing but it seems to be the proper combination of elements to get ignition working without the ignition switch in the equation.

Thanks,

Chris


Update: Just completed testing and it does in fact work. So the Black/White wire must be grounded using a 100 ohm resistor independent of the Black/Yellow wire. Grounding the circuit using the Black/Yellow was throwing me...
 
#13 ·
So now on to the project - I have one of two options: use a cheap alarm with remote start or continue with the proximity push button start.

Alarm pros:
* Faster and easier
* Provides an alarm with proximity protection for luggage, etc.
* Press remote, bike starts, put key in ignition and turn ignition switch to run position then ride away
* Provides an ignition cut out to help prevent hot wiring (if done properly)
Cons:
* Could fail
* Would not offer the desired push button start without heavy modifications
* Security concerns (capturing RF signal and reverse engineer via evolving hacks)

Proximity Start:
Pros:
* Meets current requirements
* Walk up, press hidden button bike starts then ride away
* Ignition switch become a useful deterrent against hot wiring (ignition switch become useless)
Cons:
* Time to prototype and build
* Security concerns (capturing RF signal and reverse engineer via evolving hacks)
* Extensive testing would be required
* No over all alarm with with proximity protection for luggage, etc.

Give the pro's and con's of each device I'm leaning towards a cheap alarm. I have a Scorpio on my FJR1300 I installed years ago. Had all the bells and whistles when I installed it and still works great today. I'll give it some more thought before pulling the trigger. I'll update the post my decision.
 
#15 · (Edited)
These little microwave radar detectors work great. Every time you get near them they send out 3.3 volts.


I use them at my house behind the siding. They "go off" when someone gets close. Door sensors are ok but you come home to a broken door. These "go off" before the kick even starts. One under the seat would protect the bike from about a 4 foot circle around it. I'd hook it to a buzzer with a Arduino or ESP8266.

Why don't you leave the key and just add a remote kill device? If you added a relay to disconnect the battery, that would do it and you could leave the key in and on. Glue a plastic cap over the key. A wireless 433 Mhz relay would do it if it was latching. You want one with a rolling code Something like this:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC12V-433MHZ-4-Channel-Wireless-Garage-Doors-Control-Relay-Switch-Receiver-Board/352751475702?_trkparms=aid%3D1110001%26algo%3DSPLICE.SIM%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D40718%26meid%3Dec8997904dec4cb39beb761b45838a22%26pid%3D100005%26rk%3D6%26rkt%3D12%26sd%3D283565967486%26itm%3D352751475702%26pmt%3D1%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2047675&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

You'll still want a manual disconnect switch. These devices draw some current when off. It would drain your battery without one. I'd hide a bypass switch in case of a failure.

Note the above items are examples only. Some research into what to buy is required :)

One thing I would add if I may? It you are so worried about theft, it may be time to move.
 
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