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My Ongoing Project

10K views 60 replies 6 participants last post by  Skook 
#1 ·
So I have this 2008 KLR with about 11,000 miles that sat in the carport covered with a tarp for the last five years and now I'm trying to get it running. I am not an experienced motorcycle mechanic so I'm in the dark a lot about what I'm doing. I'm doing a lot of reading about motorcycle maintenance.

Right now if I go out and pull the "choke"/enrichener all the way forward and then try to start the bike it will turn over and run for about one second and then die. I can't start it after that unless I squirt a little starting fluid behind the air filter. Then I can goose the throttle, and warm it up and it will run great. I can drive it around, shut it off, turn it on again, etc. It sounds like it's running perfectly. After it sits overnight it won't start again.

I replaced the battery and I keep the new battery on a battery tender.

I changed the oil and filter.

I put in a new spark plug.

I tracked down an electrical problem which turned out to be a bad neutral switch and I replaced that.

I installed the Thermobob 2 kit and replaced the coolant.

I cleaned the carb. It was really bad. I used a cheap carburetor rebuild kit from Amazon. I wonder if that was a good idea.

I installed a little washer under the needle and drilled out the hole in the slide like the internet told me to.

I cleaned the carb again making sure I cleared the little holes under the butterfly valve.

I installed a pilot mixture screw with a knurled knob that can be easily adjusted on the bike. I adjusted it.

I double-checked the float bowl fuel level which was too high, but is now right on the money (at the seam of the float bowl and the carb body).

I moved on from the starting issue for the time being. I've only put about fifty miles on the bike going around the block occasionally to test it out. I don't trust the tires, but I'm not ready to change them yet.

I think what I should really do next is check the compression, take a look at that spark plug and make sure I got it gapped correctly, and check the valve clearances.

Two days ago I put on a braided brake line on the front, rebuilt the master cylinder, installed new brake pads, and put fresh brake fluid in. Seems to work great.

Yesterday I gave the rear brake the same treatment but I was completely unable to bleed the system. The master cylinder wouldn't draw fluid out of the reservoir. It seemed to be trying to push fluid to the calipers though. I can only guess I made a mistake putting the master cylinder back together, so this afternoon I'm going to take it back off and see if I screwed up. Maybe a cup is upside down or something. I got a fresh bottle of brake fluid.

I got the parts and special tools in the mail yesterday to do the doohickey replacement. That will be the high water mark in my maintenance odyssey so far. I'm a little apprehensive but nothing is ever as hard as I think it will be.

Also on the agenda before I will release the bike for full duty is lubricating the swingarm pivot bolt and replacing the tires. I will check the spoke tightness, wheel runout, and bearings while I'm at it.

I'm trying to do all the work myself, although there is a good motorcycle shop a couple of blocks away from my house.

Am I on the right track here? Is there anything else I should be focusing on? What do the starting problems suggest? Is there anything I ought to farm out to the nearby shop?

That's it. Sorry for the long rambling post. Thanks for any input you can provide. I'm like a blind pig trying to find acorns here. I just don't have the experience to confidently choose my next moves.
 
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#3 · (Edited)
On Gen 2 bikes, 2008-up. The cold start enrichener is PULLED towards oneself for cold start-up. And leave it full on for the 1st couple of minutes. Then raise throttle just a bit, as one PUSHES the lever forwards toward the Normal Run Position.

Sounds to me like you are either using or writing Backwards!
 
#4 ·
The lower suspension Rocker Arm pivot bolt is more prone to corroding in than the Swing Arm pivot bolt. So re-grease Both with marine waterproof grease. I use Bel-Ray.
 
#8 ·
Too many people in-advertently or on-purpose will open the throttle while pressing the starter button.

The Keihin CVK carb does NOT have an accelerator pump and it does Not have a choke plate. The cold start enrichener opens a Separate jet & a Separate air passage, specifically for starting. Any opening of the throttle plate can Reduce or even Totally Negate the separate Cold Start enrichener system.

The fact that it fires once or twice is most likely because of the 'Accumulated Fumes' in the clean-side of the air box from over-night evaporation. Once their consumed the incoming air needs to be enrichened.

So I'll suggest that you keep your hand completely off of the RH grip & attempt to start with Full Enrichener & only your RH Index finger used on the starter button.

If this does not light its fire, it may be because of Low engine compression due to tight valve clearances.
When the RH exhaust is below spec or worse, nearing '0' clearance, the Kawasaki Automatic Compression Release hold that EX valve open too far Up the up-stroke of compression. Which remaining compression can dip below the recommended minimum of 77PSI.
With 11,000 miles on the bike this is a very strong possibility.

Always attempt to select thinner valve shims to achieve near maximum valve tappet clearance, but NOT loose on the thickest feeler gauge. Lightly snug on thickest or loose on next size or two under max is great.

Intake specs is .004 - .008 inches & Exhaust specs is .006 - .010 inches. The valve shims come in .002 inch increments. The ink marks face DOWN. The inks marks are in 0.05mm increments / .002 inch.
 
#9 ·
So, (please bear with me), that means you would suspect the bike has only marginal compression because one of the exhaust valves is open too long on the upstroke. It turns over a couple times due to the ignition of the accumulated fumes. Once the fumes have burned off, it can't compress the mixture enough to burn the fuel/air properly. It doesn't matter if I have the carburetor set up correctly.

Maybe after it warms up a little things change and expand enough that the marginal compression becomes barely sufficient compression and it runs okay until it cools down again.

In any case, tomorrow I will do a compression check, spark plug inspection, and valve check. It will be new territory for me, but it doesn't sound that difficult. I guess if the valves are out of adjustment I then put it back together and order the specific shims I need. I don't want to buy a whole set (or do I?).

Thanks a lot for the help. I guess I'll watch a few YouTube videos tonight and read your post more carefully. So I want the valve clearance as loose as possible while still being in spec? Because valves tighten up over time? I guess it will all make more sense when I get it apart and look at it.

The braided brake lines, new pads, brake fluid and rebuilt master cylinders worked good, but perhaps not the phenomenal improvement I had expected. I could lock the rear wheel up, so I guess that's as good as it can possibly be.
 
#10 ·
Just a comment about a conventional compression test.

The Kawasaki Automatic Compression Release (KACR) compromises a conventional compression test, IMHO. Cracks a valve open on the compression stroke at cranking rpm.

Better, a leak-down test, unless the KACR is disabled for a conventional compression test.

Also, just a tip on checking valve clearance: Perform the test at piston Top Dead Center (TDC) when ALL valves are closed (not at the OTHER piston TDC). In other words, at TDC on the compression stroke, not on the exhaust stroke.
 
#11 ·
DO Not Play with the Throttle! Yet.

The Starter Motor does the "turning over". The engine "FIRES" a couple of strokes, because of accumulated fuel fumes.

Your cold start problem could be because of snug valve tappet clearances. Suggested by 11,000 miles and unknown maintenance history.
And can be exacerbated by opening the throttle TOO Early. But could be solely because of Your Procedure.

Try full enrichener, ZERO throttle, crank the starter motor 5-6 continuous rotations, if no start, Let go of the starter button! Count to 10, slowly. This allows raw fuel to vaporize, priming the engine.
Re-engage the starter motor for 5-6 more rotations. Hopefully it "fires" and runs on full enrichener on the 2nd stroke. If not, let go of the button for another 10 count.

Ok, re-engage starter button & on the second rotation just 'twitch' the throttle slightly open! Hopefully it is now running still on full enrichener. Let it run full on for a minute or two.


If the engine can only be started by opening the throttle to Amplify the cold cranking compression, that is an indication of Low COLD CRANKING Compression.
Usually due to snug valve tappets, due to mileage, hopefully not due to dirt thru the air intake.
 
#12 ·
I just went through your starting procedure carefully.

Try full enrichener, ZERO throttle, crank the starter motor 5-6 continuous rotations, if no start, Let go of the starter button! Count to 10, slowly. This allows raw fuel to vaporize, priming the engine..
The engine fired and ran for maybe one second and then died.

Re-engage the starter motor for 5-6 more rotations. Hopefully it "fires" and runs on full enrichener on the 2nd stroke. If not, let go of the button for another 10 count.
The engine didn't fire.

Ok, re-engage starter button & on the second rotation just 'twitch' the throttle slightly open! Hopefully it is now running still on full enrichener. Let it run full on for a minute or two.
The engine didn't fire.

It seems the obvious next step is a compression check and valve check. I didn't know about the KACR. The specs in the Clymer manual must be for the KACR enabled. When I check the valves I will disable the KACR and check it again.

I tried to find the procedure for doing a compression check in the shop manual but couldn't find it. I would do a leak down test, but I have a compression gauge and I don't have a leak down tester.
 
#14 ·
Tom's compression check procedure should reveal any ring/valve (including valve adjustment) issues, or . . . a valve clearance check might be a good place to start.

I suspect carburetor problems, from the symptoms described.

Sometimes, starting fluid is your friend (always practice fire safety).

Starting fluid insures a combustible mixture; if the bike runs on starting fluid, but not its own gasoline . . . could be fuel/carb-related. Assume drained tank and carb float bowl, re-filled with fresh, "dry" gasoline.
 
#15 ·
Thanks Tom, the video was very informative. Unfortunately I'm roadblocked. The compression gauge that I have was one I used to use on my old Land Cruiser, but it doesn't fit into the spark plug hole of the KLR. I naively assumed all spark plug diameters are the same. Or maybe I hoped they were. It has one attachment which also does not fit. Maybe I had more attachments at one time, but I don't remember any.

I guess I need to buy a new compression tester with the appropriate attachment. Does anybody know what the designation of the thread size, diameter, whatever, that I am looking for?
 
#16 ·
Yeah, it's got fresh gas in the tank and the float bowl. I was thinking carb also, but I can't seem to figure it out that way.

The spark plug did seem a little loose so I retightened it and tried again. The same thing happened: It ran for a second and then nothing more after that. The spark plug looked normal and it was gapped correctly.

Did I mention I was no mechanic?
 
#17 ·
I think I found an adapter or somesuch at Horrid Fright. Let me go look in the Shop of Horrors and figure out what I did.
 
#18 ·
You need to have an adapter that goes from 14mm down to 12mm. Here is one: https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-20540-12mm-Spark-Adapter/dp/B00CEX5BNW/ref=asc_df_B00CEX5BNW/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=312158556601&hvpos=1o5&hvnetw=g&hvrand=984081478339686170&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9031025&hvtargid=pla-570776027741&psc=1

Horrid Fright doesn't seem to carry them and they don't seem to have the $10 compression test kits that had a full set of adapters in it anymore, either.

Might be you could get one at NAPA or AutoZone.
 
#21 ·
You need to have an adapter that goes from 14mm down to 12mm. Here is one: https://www.amazon.com/Lisle-20540-...ocphy=9031025&hvtargid=pla-570776027741&psc=1

Horrid Fright doesn't seem to carry them and they don't seem to have the $10 compression test kits that had a full set of adapters in it anymore, either.

Might be you could get one at NAPA or AutoZone.
Or . . . FLAG DOWN the next Snap-On truck you see!

P.S. Bring money!

:)

--------------------------------------

Agree with post above; doubt low compression surfaces as the root/primary cause of the problem; thoroughly cleaning and adjusting the carburetor (q.v., "Carb Overhaul" post on this forum) and checking/adjusting valve clearance might be easier and less cumbersome than a compression check; may solve the problem.
 
#19 ·
I think that doing this compression test, though, ought to be your second priority. It is far more likely that the valves are too tight or the carburetor idle circuit is not clean than that there is a problem that the compression test will give insight to.

Was your idle jet this clean?
 
#20 ·
Tom, you are a scholar and a gentleman. I love this forum.

I don't know why I've gotten so hung up on the compression test. Still, I have to do one sooner or later. I went to the three auto parts stores in my smallish town and nobody could sell me an adapter. I guess I'll get that one you pointed to on Amazon.

Yes, I do think my idle jet was that clean, but...*sigh*...I will pull the carburetor off and check.

So, onto the valve clearance check. But that's for tomorrow. Thanks a lot guys for the all the help. I'd seriously be floundering around (more than I am) without you.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Snap-On? In the Willamette Valley? Only passing through on I-5 at about 75mph. ;^)

I stayed in a lovely B&B, CH Bailey House; it was out east of Roseburg. Great country but most everything that has spark plugs is green and yeller and runs like a deer.
 
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#24 ·
We're not as backwards as all that. I know what a Snap-On truck is. I think I even saw one once, somewhere.

Man, the valve clearance check was a little more involved than I thought it was going to be. Getting the valve cover out of there was like some kind of Chinese puzzle. I got my camshafts out! I hope I can get it all together.

So...The Left Exhaust was 0.15 mm (0.006")
Right Exhaust 0.15 mm (0.006")
Left Intake 0.05 mm (0.002")
Right Intake 0.06 mm (0.0025")

Both exhausts were right on the tight edge of being in spec and both intakes were too tight.

I wanted to shoot for the loose end of the specs for both, but the guy at the motorcycle shop convinced me to shoot for the middle of the upper and lower limits. Shims ain't cheap for a KLR, by the way.

The guy said the valves could contribute to my starting problems but he leaned towards it being a carburetor issue also. Tomorrow I'll pull the carb off and check for mud chiggers in the jets.
 
#25 ·
The guy said the valves could contribute to my starting problems but he leaned towards it being a carburetor issue also. Tomorrow I'll pull the carb off and check for mud chiggers in the jets.
Please, oh PLEASE, Skook: Take a look at this:

https://www.klrforum.com/how-tos-tech-guides/19026-carb-overhaul.html

On re-assembly, make sure the needle jet (or, "collar," or whatever one might call the part) is installed properly. And the slide spring holder. And, be sure the diaphragm is properly sound, seated, and sealed. You've verified fuel flow from the petcock, right?

Good luck!
 
#26 ·
I do not mess with metric measurements for valve tappets. As I've never found a feeler set marked in .025mm (.001inch) increments.

I always hope to achieve at least a loose ,006 or .007 inch on the Intakes. But preferably a Snug .008 inches, but never a loose .008" on intakes.

Also at least a loose .008 or .009 inch on Exhausts. But preferably a Snug .010 inches, but never a loose .010" on exhausts.

I write my existing clearances as such to help guide shim choice.
Could be <.006" / or could be .006" / or could be >.006" on either of your exhaust valves.

On a <.006 one should be able to use 2 sizes thinner and achieve either <.010" or a perfect snug .010".
Remember we are working with a lot stiffer springs than ignition breaker points.
 
#27 ·
#28 ·
Too Coarse to be of much use. IMO.

It's just so simple to remember that shims are only available in .002 inch increments. And if an exhaust valve is measuring at >.008 or <.009 that is a good as it can get!
As close to maximum as possible without going over spec.
 
#31 · (Edited)
All I can say is that it's a dang good thing that we didn't use the metric system to send a man to the moon. Look what happened with the Mars Climate Orbiter. Those guys would be out of the solar system by now. Either that or a new crater on the moon...

Only in the metric system could Newton disguise himself by drawing a square meter box on the ground and standing in it. He'd look just like Pascal.

Our system of torque is screwed up due to colloquial misuse of terms. We say pound-feet and foot-pounds interchangeably but it really should be pound-force-feet. It is intuitive, though, as it is essentially the force that gravity exerts on one pound of mass at a lever at a point of one foot from a pivot. Easy to understand.

What the jump the **** up and down is a Newton-meter, though? A Newton is a force that accelerates a kilogram at one meter per second. Heh? You stick that out on the end of a one-meter lever and you've got some torque. It's completely non-intuitive.

Now, if'n a Newton was whatever Isaac massed, say 80Kg, and given an acceleration equal to gravity at 9.8 m/s that might make some sense. We could wrap our head around that, as a N-m would be something like 175 pounds sitting at the end of a threeish foot lever. That's like 60ish ft-lbs. But less than a quarter ft-lb? Nah, it will never fly.
 
#34 ·
Confining the post to discussing measurement of length (never mind mass, force, torque, "weight," etc.):

Who but the FRENCH could come up with an idea for the "meter" (or, "metre"), with a nonsensical idea such as this (as WikipediA tells us):

-------------------------------

. . . the commission – whose members included Lagrange, Laplace, Monge and Condorcet – decided that the new measure should be equal to one ten-millionth of the distance from the North Pole to the Equator (the quadrant of the Earth's circumference), measured along the meridian passing through Paris.

-----------------------------

Flaws include . . . the earth ain't exactly ROUND; rather, the geometric solid remains an OBLATE spheroid . . . thus, meridian length doesn't conform to earth surface latitude angle consistently from pole to pole; the French at the time measured only ground distance. And, wouldn't you know, they chose the meridian passing through PARIS, not GREENWICH!

How DARE they subsume our sacred English system of length measurement, obscenely trashing (for a questionable global presumption) the sacred inch, foot, yard, mile, chain, furlong, hand, rod/pole/perch, I could go on!

Without the furlong, how does one know the length of a horse race? Without the hand, how can a horse's height be specified?

Oh, the French (and other Europeans) went ON. In modern terms, they defined the meter as (ibid.):


-------------------------------------

The metre, symbol m, is the SI unit of length. It is defined by taking the fixed numerical value of the speed of light in vacuum c to be 299792458 when expressed in the unit m⋅s−1, where the second is defined in terms of the caesium frequency ΔνCs.

-------------------------------------

Now, I ask you: How many of us posses instrumentation capable of measuring the speed of light (in a vacuum, no less) in our garages/shops?

With the English system, ordinary objects determine units of length. For example, three barleycorns, end to end, occupy a distance of one inch in length. A foot? I don't have to tell you. A yard? Distance from one's nose to the middle finger of an outstretched arm and hand.

Not only does the Metric System Conspiracy trash the ENGLISH units of measurement, for those living in Texas, forget the Vara:

-------------------------------------------

Vara: a Texas unit of length equal to 33.33 inches (84.66 centimeters).

------------------------------------------

Even today, former Spanish/Mexican acreage in Texas is described in varas, in official courthouse land records.

Obviously, we must RESIST the Metric System Conspiracy! Do not speak, write, or type in the metric syntax; instead, use our beloved English system.

(It's o.k. to use the Biblical "cubit," the distance from one's elbow to the extended hand's middle finger.)

Now, where are my WHITWORTH wrenches??????????????

:)
 
#32 ·
I don't have a problem with the 'metric system'. I have a problem with 'too coarse' of measurements & 'rounding' of measurement tools.

Then owners whine and whimper about "tick, tick, tick" from their valve train!

When in doubt about valve train tappet clearnace I'll suggest that it is best to error on the snug side of things. (At least if one is aiming for the wide side of specs.) For longest interval between checks & adjustments.
 
#33 ·
Holy s***! Tom, you made those videos? I watched those when I initially pulled my carburetor off when I unmothballed my bike. They were invaluable. Very well done.

I followed them pretty closely, but I'm going to pull the carburetor again today and check the usual suspects. I've got nothing to do until the valve shims arrive anyway.
 
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