Some major upgrade advice - Page 10 - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions For repair, maintaining or modifying discussions related to the newly updated 2008 and beyond, Generation 2 KLR650 Motorcycle.

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post #91 of 166 Old 11-04-2019, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
A custom one-of connecting rod might set your net worth back a bit ILove2, IMHO. However, cost doesn't enter into your plans and ambitions significantly, from your posts.
From what Iíve seen on the CWI web site, a custom rod is about $300. Balancing is $200. Stroking with the stock rod is $300. Labor is $125. Rounding the bottom of the rod for additional clearance is $30. All told less than $1000 to get the job done, with one caveat ... longer rods need a piston with the wrist pin moved too.

I havenít been able to source one. I can buy 4, but not one. And I might have a problem with a 105mm bore too. Last vendor doesnít make them that big.

So, if I want to build a stroker with available pistons it means a shorter stroke, shorter rod, and relocating the crankshaft pivot pin outward. Iím not sure if thatís doable since Iíve not even seen the crank, but Iíll give CWI a call tomorrow and see what they can do and/or suggest.

As for cost not entering in to my plans, I assure you it does, but I bought my KLR with an $8K-$10K budget. I only paid 3K for the 2099 KLR. 2K on shocks. So I have $3K-$5K left. If needed, Iíve got another $2K-$3K I can throw into the pot. Iíll be rebuilding a clients server infrastructure and migrating them in to the next decades software over the holidays.

So itís not an infinite budget. Itís just I only get to have one motorcycle to do all the things I want it to do, unlike others with 2,3, or more motorcycles. Iím just trying to give the KLR the best suspension and engine I possibly can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
What does your calendar for boring/stroking/camming/exhausting/intaking/carburating/porting-and-polishing/dynamic balancing/larger valve installation/etc. look like, Ilove2?
I started buying engine parts yesterday. Ordered the oversize valves from Schnitz Racing. Tried to order the cam shafts and heavy duty valve spring kit from Web Cam Racing Cams, but apparently I need to call them. If they require cores, Iíll move on to Hot Cams instead. I prefer the Web Cams but itís $820 for the parts. If I have to include cores I donít think itís going to be worth it to me.

I canít really buy the rest of the parts until I talk to CWI and resolve the piston issue. Anyone know where I can get a single custom piston manufactured?

Bottom line, Iím taking it apart over Thanksgiving week. Shipping out the head to Race Tech for a 5 angle valve seat and fully ported head using the oversize valves and whichever cams I buy.

If I can source a piston for a longer rod I can build what I want. If not, and CWI says I can do it with a shorter rod Iíll go that route using the 719cc BBK from EM. If not, no stroker and just the 719cc BBK.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
Looks like your research is essentially complete, awaiting design decisions.

I sooo much want a longer rod and custom piston, but need some help with the custom piston part. Iím running out of places to call.

So, tomorrow Iím hoping my call with CWI bears fruit. Iíll let you know how that works out.

If you see anything Iím missing, please let me know. If you have any ideas on how to finish this stroker build successfully, again, please let me know.


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post #92 of 166 Old 11-04-2019, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILove2Ride2Wheels View Post

If you see anything Iím missing, please let me know. If you have any ideas on how to finish this stroker build successfully, again, please let me know.


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STOP thinking about a Longer connecting rod and a custom piston with a re-located wrist pin!

You have gotten yourself totally confused about the alterations of most of theses parts.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 85,000+ miles & counting
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post #93 of 166 Old 11-05-2019, 06:35 AM
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With all that I have read on this thread, if locating a correct piston is this difficult, that would be a sign to avoid all this work. If you are to proceed, then I would think you would want 2 pistons, one as a backup for someday down the road? There have been plenty of other good options mentioned.
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post #94 of 166 Old 11-05-2019, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
STOP thinking about a Longer connecting rod and a custom piston with a re-located wrist pin!



You have gotten yourself totally confused about the alterations of most of theses parts.

True enough! Guess itís just time to relax and go with the flow.

Thanks.


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post #95 of 166 Old 11-05-2019, 08:31 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1955Vdubman View Post
With all that I have read on this thread, if locating a correct piston is this difficult, that would be a sign to avoid all this work.

That just makes it a challenge.

Seriously though, now that Iíve stopped chasing my own tail, itís a lot easier to deal with the concept. Iím not a person that can see - in my head - visual 3D objects. It didnít help that thereís a lot of confusing material out there on the web either.

You are correct too that if I went with a longer rod a pair of pistons would be a good idea too. I never did get a quote for a set of 4 either.

The only reason I see now to go the longer rod setup is because itís definitely easier to move the crankshaft pivot pin inward than outward clearance wise. Might be more torque too, but doubt the difference would be really noticeable.

Iím actually looking forward to see what CWI has to say about the project today.


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post #96 of 166 Old 11-05-2019, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILove2Ride2Wheels View Post
From what I’ve seen on the CWI web site, a custom rod is about $300. Balancing is $200. Stroking with the stock rod is $300. Labor is $125. Rounding the bottom of the rod for additional clearance is $30. All told less than $1000 to get the job done, with one caveat ... longer rods need a piston with the wrist pin moved too.

I haven’t been able to source one. I can buy 4, but not one. And I might have a problem with a 105mm bore too. Last vendor doesn’t make them that big.

So, if I want to build a stroker with available pistons it means a shorter stroke, shorter rod, and relocating the crankshaft pivot pin outward. I’m not sure if that’s doable since I’ve not even seen the crank, but I’ll give CWI a call tomorrow and see what they can do and/or suggest.

As for cost not entering in to my plans, I assure you it does, but I bought my KLR with an $8K-$10K budget. I only paid 3K for the 2099 KLR. 2K on shocks. So I have $3K-$5K left. If needed, I’ve got another $2K-$3K I can throw into the pot. I’ll be rebuilding a clients server infrastructure and migrating them in to the next decades software over the holidays.

So it’s not an infinite budget. It’s just I only get to have one motorcycle to do all the things I want it to do, unlike others with 2,3, or more motorcycles. I’m just trying to give the KLR the best suspension and engine I possibly can.



I started buying engine parts yesterday. Ordered the oversize valves from Schnitz Racing. Tried to order the cam shafts and heavy duty valve spring kit from Web Cam Racing Cams, but apparently I need to call them. If they require cores, I’ll move on to Hot Cams instead. I prefer the Web Cams but it’s $820 for the parts. If I have to include cores I don’t think it’s going to be worth it to me.

I can’t really buy the rest of the parts until I talk to CWI and resolve the piston issue. Anyone know where I can get a single custom piston manufactured?

Bottom line, I’m taking it apart over Thanksgiving week. Shipping out the head to Race Tech for a 5 angle valve seat and fully ported head using the oversize valves and whichever cams I buy.

If I can source a piston for a longer rod I can build what I want. If not, and CWI says I can do it with a shorter rod I’ll go that route using the 719cc BBK from EM. If not, no stroker and just the 719cc BBK.




I sooo much want a longer rod and custom piston, but need some help with the custom piston part. I’m running out of places to call.

So, tomorrow I’m hoping my call with CWI bears fruit. I’ll let you know how that works out.

If you see anything I’m missing, please let me know. If you have any ideas on how to finish this stroker build successfully, again, please let me know.


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Thanks for sharing! (I forgot to mention the mappable EFI and programmable CDI you contemplate.)

Don't know about your case, but . . . WEBCAM requires cores, for some of their grinds, in my experience. Basically, re-grinds and hardening, vs. billet cams. Also, you may need "trick" valvetrain components, like "stronger" valve springs, to avoid valve float at high rpm.

Best wishes on the stroker. AFAIK, you'll have the only "daily-driver" stroked KLR in captivity. q.v., "The World's Fastest Indian."

Oh, yes; as previously mentioned, I think you'll want a SHORTER, rather than a LONGER (than stock) rod, with a stroked (longer throw) crankshaft. Yet, I'll defer to CWI's design choice.

ďYou better put down that gun. You got two ways to go, put it down or use it. Even if you tie me, youíre gonna be dead.Ē "John Russell" (Paul Newman), Hombre

Last edited by Damocles; 11-05-2019 at 08:43 AM.
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post #97 of 166 Old 11-05-2019, 08:58 AM Thread Starter
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[quote=Damocles;691423]Thanks for sharing! (I forgot to mention the mappable EFI and programmable CDI you contemplate.) /QUOTE]

They still have not responded to my email, so donít know if Iíll be able to get a programmable CDI made.

FI and fuel injection still seem possible, but I donít know the quality of the unit. Iíll look into it more after the basic build is done a long with just a larger pumper carburetor too. Might be fine with just some resetting. Canít say now, but again itís a lower priority than the engine build.

And Iím still trying to figure out an exhaust system. Some canít be used in CA.

[QUOTE=Damocles;691423] Don't know about your case, but . . . WEBCAM requires cores, for some of their grinds, in my experience. Basically, re-grinds and hardening, vs. billet cams. Also, you may need "trick" valvetrain components, like "stronger" valve springs, to avoid valve float at high rpm. /QUOTE]

Iím aware of the spring kit and thatís part of the planned build with the new cams. If I donít require cores. The cams from Web Cam are $500. If I have to buy cores too thatís going to tack on some addition funds and Iím not sure itíll be cost effective. Going to check eBay today to see what a set costs before I talk to Web Cams.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
Oh, yes; as previously mentioned, I think you'll want a SHORTER, rather than a LONGER (than stock) rod, with a stroked (longer throw) crankshaft. Yet, I'll defer to CWI's design choice.

That does seem to be the consensus. It also seems to be easier than sourcing a custom piston. Yet, Iíll let CWI guide me on this choice too.

Thanks for your help on this project. Any way I look at it though itís going to be interesting.


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post #98 of 166 Old 11-05-2019, 09:37 AM
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ILove2; tried to respond by quoting your previous message, but must have punched the wrong button on my keyboard; no indication the message "went."

Anyway, I remarked: One typically doesn't "buy" a camshaft core; rather, a stock core is exchanged for a regrind; either a previously re-ground camshaft in stock, or for a re-grind and heat-treatment of the stock core submitted.

Further, with a high-lift, long-duration, long overlap camshaft, you'll need the trick valve gear--doesn't matter whether the cam is reground (requiring a core) or billet (newly manufactured).

ďYou better put down that gun. You got two ways to go, put it down or use it. Even if you tie me, youíre gonna be dead.Ē "John Russell" (Paul Newman), Hombre

Last edited by Damocles; 11-05-2019 at 09:40 AM.
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post #99 of 166 Old 11-05-2019, 09:58 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
Anyway, I remarked: One typically doesn't "buy" a camshaft core; rather, a stock core is exchanged for a regrind; either a previously re-ground camshaft in stock, or for a re-grind and heat-treatment of the stock core submitted.
I think you misunderstood me. I will want to keep my stock cams as spare parts. Never know if Iíll need them. So will buy a replacement cam on eBay for the core exchange if I need to provide a core for the new cams from Web Cams. Looks like some go as cheap as $30-$50.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
Further, with a high-lift, long-duration, long overlap camshaft, you'll need the trick valve gear--doesn't matter whether the cam is reground (requiring a core) or billet (newly manufactured).

What trick valve gear are you referring to here? Iíve already got new shorter Schnitz Racing 1mm oversize valves on their way to me. If they really do have them in stock.

Iíll be purchasing new valve seals from EM. Valve guides will need to be purchased later as these can only have their proper length determined when they are to be pressed back in to the head assembly.

If I buy the Web Cams camshafts - and it looks doable even if I have to buy cores on eBay - then Iíll also be buying their heavy duty spring kit which included new springs, new titanium retainers, and I believe titanium keeps as well.

I missing something here?


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post #100 of 166 Old 11-05-2019, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILove2Ride2Wheels View Post
I think you misunderstood me. I will want to keep my stock cams as spare parts. Never know if Iíll need them. So will buy a replacement cam on eBay for the core exchange if I need to provide a core for the new cams from Web Cams. Looks like some go as cheap as $30-$50.




What trick valve gear are you referring to here? Iíve already got new shorter Schnitz Racing 1mm oversize valves on their way to me. If they really do have them in stock.

Iíll be purchasing new valve seals from EM. Valve guides will need to be purchased later as these can only have their proper length determined when they are to be pressed back in to the head assembly.

If I buy the Web Cams camshafts - and it looks doable even if I have to buy cores on eBay - then Iíll also be buying their heavy duty spring kit which included new springs, new titanium retainers, and I believe titanium keeps as well.

I missing something here?
No. Not if you insist on keeping your original cam, I reckon!

ďYou better put down that gun. You got two ways to go, put it down or use it. Even if you tie me, youíre gonna be dead.Ē "John Russell" (Paul Newman), Hombre
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