Namur, Athena, or OEM gaskets? - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions For repair, maintaining or modifying discussions related to the newly updated 2008 and beyond, Generation 2 KLR650 Motorcycle.

 4Likes
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 34 Old 11-06-2019, 02:49 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 110
Namur, Athena, or OEM gaskets?

Iím rebuilding my engine from the ground up. Iíve been searching for a complete gasket set to make it a bit easier. Iíve only found two vendors that have complete sets. Natural and Athena. Iíve found some Cometic gaskets at Schnitz Racing, but these are individual gaskets and a bit pricey too. So Iím not sure if they are worth it. Might be if they seal well and are reusable as claimed.

So any suggestions as to quality of theses kits vs. individual Cometic or OEM gaskets?

FWIW, I am also going to replace all rubber seals in the engine and all wearable components. So far, that really means the cam chain tensioner assembly as Iím not sure what else to consider. Iíve thought about a new cam chain. These are not really expensive from third parties. Although, not sure if the quality compared to OEM. Iíve seen Hot Cams, Moose Racing, and a few unknown - to me - brands.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ILove2Ride2Wheels is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 34 Old 11-06-2019, 06:12 PM
OverDrive
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lander, Wyoming
Posts: 5,609
I'll never use another Cometic cylinder base gasket on a KLR650, they seem to weep a little bit.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 85,000+ miles & counting
pdwestman is offline  
post #3 of 34 Old 11-06-2019, 06:25 PM
Pretty in Pink, dunno why
 
Tom Schmitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Redondo Beach
Posts: 7,605
Garage
A little bit? They are like that little Italian boy that pees into the fountain.
pdwestman likes this.

Tom [email protected]

ďThe kid poured him another straight rye and I think he doctored it with water down behind the bar because when he came up with it he looked as guilty as if he'd kicked his grandmother.Ē -Philip Marlowe

ď'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used.Ē -Napoleon Bonaparte

Sting like a butterfly.
Noli Timere Messorem
Tom Schmitz is offline  
 
post #4 of 34 Old 11-06-2019, 09:14 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 110
Well, not to worry on the base or head gasket as thatís included in the EM 719cc BBK. Iím more concerned with the bottom end as Iím going to split the cases.

While itís open Iím replacing all rubber seals & o-rings and might even go so far as to replace all the bearings and bushings. I havenít really decided on the bearings & bushings as some have a hefty price tag. If itís bad itíll get replaced. But Iím doubtful any are really worn with only 14K on the clock.

I am replacing the tensioner assembly as itís fairly inexpensive. Even a new OEM cam chain IS under $100. The balancer chain though is over $200. Whatís up with that?

FWIW, Iím only thinking of replacing these items as I donít want to tear into the bottom end again if I can avoid it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ILove2Ride2Wheels is offline  
post #5 of 34 Old 11-07-2019, 06:50 AM
5th Gear
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILove2Ride2Wheels View Post
I am replacing the tensioner assembly as itís fairly inexpensive. Even a new OEM cam chain IS under $100. The balancer chain though is over $200. Whatís up with that?
The price difference between a balancer chain and a cam chain? When you actually see the two chains side-by-side, I think the answer will be obvious to you.

Why replace serviceable, operational parts (such as cam chain tensioner, balancer and camshaft chains, and low-mileage functioning bearings)? Your bike, your money, your choice. Just wondering!

ďYou better put down that gun. You got two ways to go, put it down or use it. Even if you tie me, youíre gonna be dead.Ē "John Russell" (Paul Newman), Hombre
Damocles is offline  
post #6 of 34 Old 11-07-2019, 08:27 AM Thread Starter
2nd Gear
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
Why replace serviceable, operational parts (such as cam chain tensioner, balancer and camshaft chains, and low-mileage functioning bearings)? Your bike, your money, your choice. Just wondering!

Mostly because I donít know the actual longevity of the components and donít want to spit the cases again for the next 10 years to replace components. Itíll only get more difficult as I get older.

Then there is the concern that like a chain spoken set which is always replaced as a set to prevent undue wear you replace them as a set. Iím putting in new cams with new adjustable gears so I will replace the cam chain. And guess Iíll buy a new gear for that too so they can all wear as a set.

Balanced assembly though is questionable. Sounds like itís a wider multiple link seriously tough chain that might not even be worn much at all at 14K miles. Got an idea how long they last? If less than 50K miles itís a no brainer for me to replace it. 100K miles or more and Iíll leave it as is.

Same goes for case bearings too. Heck, I found a shop in AZ that will perform an isometric superfine transmission service for half of what CWI does. And I might do that too. Itís a permanent modification that actually improves strength by up to 30%, lowers friction, and makes a smoother shifting transmission. If it lowers the gear noise that would be a significant plus factor for me.

Of course, the big question for me in this thread is gaskets for the bottom end. Iíve done some searching and not much info on the bottom end gasket reputation. Or fit. I suppose I could but the Athena set and spray them with copper sealant from Permatex to make sure they seal well, but theyíd never be reusable like the Cometic gaskets if I had to pull the sides again. Or for that matter easy to remove. Not that I want to ever take it apart again. Just trying to plan ahead in case I do.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ILove2Ride2Wheels is offline  
post #7 of 34 Old 11-07-2019, 08:47 AM
5th Gear
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILove2Ride2Wheels View Post

Of course, the big question for me in this thread is gaskets for the bottom end. I’ve done some searching and not much info on the bottom end gasket reputation. Or fit. I suppose I could but the Athena set and spray them with copper sealant from Permatex to make sure they seal well, but they’d never be reusable like the Cometic gaskets if I had to pull the sides again. Or for that matter easy to remove. Not that I want to ever take it apart again. Just trying to plan ahead in case I do.
Besides the PERMEABILITY of your base gasket, you must consider its THICKNESS. Already mentioned, compressing additional mixture volume into a fixed volume compression chamber raises chamber pressure. Unless you wish to accept the considerably higher compression ratio (consequent to boring-and-stroking), you might use a THICKER base gasket (included for optional use with 685 kits, I understand), or perhaps double base gaskets, as a countermeasure. The valve timing will be skewed to some extent by elevating the cylinder head, as mentioned, but . . . you're intending degreeing your cams with your adjustable sprockets, so you can easily compensate for the change in driven camshaft chain segment length (resulting from increasing the distance between the crankshaft cam chain sprocket center and the camshaft sprockets centers).

ISOMETRIC SUPERFINE transmission service?????????????? Increases strength of WHAT 30 %? "Inquiring minds want to know!"

ďYou better put down that gun. You got two ways to go, put it down or use it. Even if you tie me, youíre gonna be dead.Ē "John Russell" (Paul Newman), Hombre

Last edited by Damocles; 11-07-2019 at 08:53 AM.
Damocles is offline  
post #8 of 34 Old 11-07-2019, 10:46 AM
4th Gear
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Kelowna, B.C.
Posts: 2,396
Quote:
Originally Posted by ILove2Ride2Wheels View Post
Mostly because I donít know the actual longevity of the components and donít want to spit the cases again for the next 10 years to replace components.
Maybe this will give you an idea: http://watt-man.com/uploads/How_Many_Miles.pdf

On the gaskets, you've answered your own question - when in doubt use the OEM gaskets.


Dave
Damocles likes this.
DPelletier is offline  
post #9 of 34 Old 11-07-2019, 12:08 PM
5th Gear
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,387
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
Maybe this will give you an idea: http://watt-man.com/uploads/How_Many_Miles.pdf

On the gaskets, you've answered your own question - when in doubt use the OEM gaskets.


Dave
Agree. Of course, a trick head gasket is required for an overbore; or . . . some clever carving of an OEM gasket should be performed. That's what men say. Maybe not!
DPelletier likes this.

ďYou better put down that gun. You got two ways to go, put it down or use it. Even if you tie me, youíre gonna be dead.Ē "John Russell" (Paul Newman), Hombre
Damocles is offline  
post #10 of 34 Old 11-07-2019, 12:37 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 110
[quote=Damocles;691607]Besides the PERMEABILITY of your base gasket, you must consider its THICKNESS. /QUOTE]

Ah, donít have to worry about these as they are included in the 729cc BBK. All the top end gaskets are except for the tensioner and I ordered one of those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
ISOMETRIC SUPERFINE transmission service?????????????? Increases strength of WHAT 30 %? "Inquiring minds want to know!"

Youíve never heard of the ISF/REM technique. Thatís probably because my phone spell checked me as itís actually called ... isotropic superfine finish. Iím not sure what the REM abbreviation is though. A quick Google search will loads lots of options.

Short Block Charlie has some videos too. Heís the vendor I found in AZ. His eBay add was $120 for a transmission vs. $250 for CWI. Other vendors charge from $350-$650. A lot depends on how many parts.

Seriously though, go take a look. Itís interesting technology. One really interesting feature is increased longevity. Particularly on transmission gears. Itís been used in racing for years, but has become extremely available in more machine shops.

Iíll see if I can find the 30% reference. I was just browsing a lot on my desktop so donít have the history on my phone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
ILove2Ride2Wheels is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in













Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome