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Oil burning

11K views 53 replies 12 participants last post by  GreatWhiteNorth 
#1 ·
So, who's got a solution to the oil burning besides RE boring?

I've read the westman oil mod thread. Does his machine still use oil?
 
#9 ·
Until the beginning of these mods, which I began to hopefully help the 2008+ oil burners, I never really bothered to track its consumption.

Keep it above the half window mark after filling the oil filter & try to ride the wheels off of it!
 
#10 ·
This has helped my oil burner



Here is my 2 cents that seems to curb the oil burning on my 09 KLR. Jezebel is going on 21K miles and was burning oil enough I was checking the oil level on every ride. Jezebel is named so because she like it a little dirty, and to be ridden hard. I started using Mobil1 Synth 15-50, topping it just above the oil line with just a little bubble left. Next I added Dyna Lube, and that help slow the oil burn and stop the metal shavings found on my magnetic oil plug. I used Dynalube years ago on an old VW that was a heavy oil burner, and it made a huge difference, with no ill side effect like other additives I'd tried. I now only top up Jezebel about every 3rd or 4th ride, just a few ounces. I ride in the canyons of San Gabriel, CA anywhere from 75 - 160 miles. Keeping the oil just above the line seems to make a difference in the loss of oil. The oil burns increasingly faster the farther below the line is goes. This has made my oil burner much more manageable. Hope this can help. :character00201:
 
#11 ·
My '09 has never burned oil excessively, but if I ride sustained over 5000 rpm it will start using oil. I can go 5000 miles on an oil change and maybe add a qt if I stay off the interstate. Just commuting in the Waxhaw NC area for work, I almost never have to add more than a qt. My bike has over 76,000 miles on it now. I run 15w-40 Rotella T.
 
#13 ·
Interesting...

You think someone at kawi woulda gave a crap about this bike in the 30 years + it was made.

they could have easily sorted it out instead of leaving everyone hanging.

I'll try these ideas... I'm still trying to figure out the cause. I'm not convinced its, warping, bad rings n all that. I've been wrong before though .... once. lol jk Nope, i was only mistaken that time. Never been wrong ;)
 
#14 ·
I've got over 43 years of experience with Kawasaki products. And over 32 years of experience with the KLR650s.

I'll strongly suggest that the major contirbuting factor to excessive oil consumption on the KLR650 engines is TOO Much oil Volume thru the rolling element bottom rod bearing, over-whelming the oil return holes in the factory piston oil ring lands.

Just look at the size & number of the oil return holes in the oem vs aftermarket pistons oil ring area for comparisons sake.

The low horsepower KLR 650 does not need that much 'OIL COOLING' coming from under the piston.
 
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#16 ·
KLR Jo, You may have some miss understanding about the Thermo-Bob. It is for 'Warming' the engine quicker and more completely. It is not for cooling.

The KLR engines tend to run too cold in sub 70F ambient temps and the larger radiators on the Gen 2 KLR's made the issue even worse.

The size of the radiators, the efficiency of the fan blades and road speed are what control Maximum coolant temperature, not a Thremo-Bob.
 
#18 · (Edited)
this i knew already, not sure what the misconception is, do tell

I consider the fact that my pro cycle by pass circulates the water more all the time the benefit, keeping temps even. It takes just as long to warm completely, bottom end included imo. I"m not humble so i excluded that. ;p

hey i have 45 years experience with Kawasaki too. :)
 
#17 ·
Here is my take on oil burning.

At 8000 miles, my '09 ended up using 250mL between changes. Not much you say? Well, it was for me, so I went the overbore route. Problem solved.

When I had the engine disassembled, I noticed quite a bit of oil carbon in the head. I did a simple solvent test of the valves and found that the exhaust valves leaked like a sieve due to oil coking. So, 250mL is apparently enough to cause valve face/seat coking and leakage.

Thermobob: I corresponded at length with Wattman. His opinion, as well as mine is the stock cooling system allows relatively cold water to cycle into the cylinder cooling jacket causing uneven heating. That can lead to distortion in the cylinder bore and poor ring sealing. Whether this is a contributor to oil consumption can only be determined by testing, which I have never seen.

My 688cc KLR, T-bob, and KLX carb mod runs great and uses no oil between changes.:thumb:
 
#25 ·
The Thermo-Bob has absolutely no effect on engine cooling. It raises the minimum temperature to a consistent level and, when moving, the KLR's cooling system is usually pretty much in equilibrium at that elevated temperature.

You're not all that new, JdgDReDD.
 
#27 ·
I've been a proponent of keeping the rpm down on the highway, because of the high piston speeds the KLR piston generates at higher rpm. All the evidence I've seen and heard, both personally and anecdotally, leads me to believe that the stock piston rings just can't keep up, the poor rings getting beaten to death when ridden at 5K+ rpm in a sustained cruise speed manner. I've posted up a bunch of related info from research I did, on this thread on advrider:

https://advrider.com/f/threads/klr650-only-thread.742912/page-1754#post-37903367

I could re-post that here if there's interest. Everyone has an opinion, and that's mine. I do however think other things contribute to oil consumption, such as cylinder distortion, etc. The aftermarket JE (E-M) & Wossner pistons are very high rpm tolerant (high tech racing pistons).
 
#28 ·
I have been geared so that 117kph is right at 5000rpm.

I am doing a drastic re-gearing to 16/38 with a KLR600 primary. This should give me 130kph at 5000rpm and 115kph at 4300rpm.

It will be interesting to see how the bikes pulls this set-up.

For lower gearing at the destination I can change the front countershaft to a 14 in less than 5 minutes with a short wrench and flip-flop axle washers for chain adjustment setting.
 
#30 ·
The KLR600 primary is functionally the equivalent of having one less tooth on the countershaft. A 16 acts like a 15.
 
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#31 ·
I started following KLR forums around spring of 2010 when I bought my '09. Don't recall a whole lot of chatter about oil consumption until a bit later when people started burning up heads on '08s and '09s.

I also followed the gen 1 threads that, at the time, were mostly focused on Doo failures. Pretty much absent from the Gen 1 discussions was any concerns about oil consumption. So, my opinion (I know, everyone has 1 or more!) is there was not a generic issue prior to '08 with pistons/rings as they relate to oil consumption and the parts lists show a change in piston/rings in the '10/11 time frame (IIRC). Only Kawasaki knows why they made the change and why it took so long to make the changes.
 
#35 · (Edited)
R/L, high oil consumption occurs to both Gen 1 & 2, although the low tension ring debacle that affected '08s, and some '09s affected them worse. I've actually spoken with a couple of guys, that saw their oil consumption increase over time. Dunno if you read the post I linked to, but the engineering behind the ring flutter aspect is clearly explained, and the problem is that the ring damage is accumulative and permanent.

The story I see, across multiple forums, is folks noting low oil consumption in city and rural riding, and then significantly higher consumption at higher highway speeds. One poor fellow on the advrider KLR thread, was posting occasionally while on a long trip, reported no problem cruising at 5,000 to 5,500 rpm... eventually shared he developed significant oil consumption problems. I've personally had 2 people share similar stories with me.

Wattman has got lots of miles on his stock piston KLR, carefully tracks his oil consumption, doesn't have a problem... but he stresses that he keeps the rpm down. Like I said, the engineering speaks for itself, sustained piston speeds over 3,000 fpm are known to cause problems in a variety of engines.

I certainly don't consider this "new" information, or heretical - I can remember reading articles about the high pistons speeds common to many thumper engine designs, and how they are prone to higher oil consumption, in motorcycle magazines in the '80s!
 
#33 · (Edited)
Hi Jason,

I agree on the 17 tooth issue. I have installed a couple of them and they give me that tingly feeling. The sprocket guard requires a fair amount of added clearance, too, which I like to do with heat and deformation rather than cutting bits away.

The sprocket I am using is a JTR487.38. It is a steel sprocket.

This was about the best price I found on it: https://www.ebay.com/itm/392502337816 which seems to be an ongoing BIN item.

Well, there was this one and, for $8, I was almost tempted to order it and see what it was. https://www.amazon.com/JT-Sprockets-JTR487-38-39-Tooth-Sprocket/dp/B0068O8FWW?th=1
All in all, it seemed to be in the 'Too good to be true' category.
 
#34 ·
Hi Jason,

I agree on the 17 tooth issue. I have installed a couple of them and they give me that tingly feeling. The sprocket guard requires a fair amount of added clearance, too, which I like to do with heat and deformation rather than cutting bits away.

The sprocket I am using is a JTR487.38. It is a steel sprocket.

This was about the best price I found on it: https://www.ebay.com/itm/392502337816 which seems to be an ongoing BIN item.

Well, there was this one and, for $8, I was almost tempted to order it and see what it was. https://www.amazon.com/JT-Sprockets-JTR487-38-39-Tooth-Sprocket/dp/B0068O8FWW?th=1
All in all, it seemed to be in the 'Too good to be true' category.
Got it!

The last time I was shopping for sprockets with less than 42 teeth all I seemed to find were aluminum sprockets.

I just ordered the JT 38T steel sprocket.

Thanks!

Jason
 
#37 ·
I avoid the expressways as much as possible.

Sure, running at lower RPMs contributes to lower oil consumption on an oil burner. But like I said, if any engine (car, motorcycle, lawn equipment etc) requires additions between oil change intervals, it is unacceptable to me.

If the big bore kit I installed had not fixed the oil consumption I was experiencing (it did), the KLR would have been sent packing and I'd be riding something else.

I don't have to add ANY oil between changes no matter how I ride it, which is in a spirited manner.:surprise:
 
#39 ·
I think a part of the problem is the high 7,500 rpm redline that the KLR has, untypical for car engines with similar bore & stroke (6,000 to 6,500 rpm redline being more typical). This article says 2,500 feet per minute (fpm) used to be considered an upper design limit - the KLR engine produces that piston speed (2560 fpm actually) at 4700 rpm!

https://www.racepagesdigital.com/pi...estructive-forces-at-work-inside-your-engine/

KLR piston speed for these given rpms:

- 4700 rpm = 2560 fpm;
- 5000 rpm = 2723 fpm;
- 5500 rpm = 2995.3 fpm;
- 6000 rpm = 3267.6 fpm;
- 7000 rpm = 3812.2 fpm; and,
- 7500 rpm = 4084.5 fpm.

I came across a different article that said the forces acting upon the crank/piston assembly increase exponentially as rpm increases. To be clear, and make fair comparison (to automotive engines), some of 'em have pushrod valve trains - my understanding is DOHC set-ups (like on the KLR) are more high rpm tolerant... but the stock piston's not (high rpm tolerant).

I've mentioned in another post, in a properly conducted experiment, only one variable at a time should be changed - installing a (race quality) JE or Wossner piston generally eliminates the oil consumption issue on the KLR engine.
 
#43 ·
For full service stations, when a customer pulled up, they often requested
"Fill her up with gas and check the oil please."

That gave way to a running joke -if you had a really sh!tty oil burner car
"Fill her up with oil -and check the gas."
 
#45 ·
GWN, I think they raised the safe FPM of piston speed to 4500-4800 fpm long before even the KLR600 was designed.

Two valve heads & push rod operation was most normally the limiting factor of RPM ceiling on those older 60s, 70s & 80s production automotive engines.

The most logical reason IMO, that all of the aftermarket big bore piston kits basically Eliminate excessive oil consumption is the larger & more numerous oil Return holes in & under their oil control rings vs the oem KLR pistons. Not ring tension or ring design, necessarily. This was brought to our attention by former member Normk, during my oil control thread. I am honored that KLR Chris chose to incorporate at least some of my PDW oil control / flow mods into his 60 HP EFI 685 engine.
 
#46 ·
Darn it Paul, now you make me post this!

Piston Motion: The Obvious and not-so-Obvious, by EPI, Inc.

... a quote from the above... "it is generally agreed that for an engine in aircraft service, 3000 fpm is a comfortable maximum MPS and experience has shown that engines having an MPS substantially exceeding that value have experienced reliability issues." Some of you may say the KLR is not an aircraft... yup, roger that, hopefully better info out there. MPS = mean (average) piston speed BTW.

That's from a post I made on adv some time ago. Now, I think those engineers over at Lycoming and Continental, etc . know a thing or two about designing and building engines, and there's a ton of in service operation and overhaul experience to draw from... and they wouldn't be using cheap materials either. Aircraft engines are built light, minimum materiel to conserve weight, compactness a priority... so are motorcycle engines. The stock KLR engine/piston is pretty old tech, nothing fancy IMO - I don't think Kawi was dipping into the high performance parts bin... they probably didn't envision folks cruising 75 or 80 mph on 'em in the first place!

I agree with the theory behind your oil mod, and frankly, prior to reading that, never considered how increasing rpm could increase oil pressure to the piston thru centrifugal force building in the crankshaft (pumping effect). That's brilliant to figure that all out.

Key point tho, even without the oil system mods, installing the better aftermarket pistons pretty much eliminates the high rpm oil consumption problem. Better design, better materiels, much lighter, employing new technologies like hard anodizing coatings, special coating on the skirt, etc. Literally racing pistons for the street...
 
#47 ·
GWN, Private pilots & their mechanics may be concerned about long term maintenance costs on privately owned planes & commercial air lines are always concerned about expenses vs profits.
I think our KLR brethren are more like Dale Earnhart than Jimmy Doolittle.

I wish that my 87 model would have had a 'Black Box' to record how many hours its engine has spent at over 6000 rpm in the past 85,000+ miles.
 
#49 ·
Yes, I agree, aircraft engine "safe piston speeds" are influenced by the consequences of engine failure.

Just for another reference point, my car has a redline of 7,200 RPM with an engine bore and stroke of 3.583" and 3.008" respectively. At redline the piston speed is 3,610 feet per minute. But I would not feel comfortable driving it at that piston speed for very long at all.

Jason
 
#48 ·
Wattman is over 160,000 miles on his KLR, still running stock piston & rings, and reports his engine currently burns 8 ounces per 1000 miles. Pretty darned good still IMO. And yet, other folks have their bikes quickly turn into oil bad oil burners... gotta be a reason, the way they ride/operate it, oil change intervals etc.

Wattman's "Oil Burn Rate" article is a good read:

http://watt-man.com/uploads/KLR_Oil_Burn_Rate_100.pdf
 
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