New Carb Setup - Loving it! - Page 3 - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions For repair, maintaining or modifying discussions related to the newly updated 2008 and beyond, Generation 2 KLR650 Motorcycle.

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post #21 of 191 Old 01-12-2020, 11:04 AM
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At the risk of sounding like an a-hole, I'll say that dredd asked those who have seen the needle to not post pics, and I agreed to it. I think this is a questionable position to take, since it contributes to drama and makes his needle sound like snake oil, but sometimes you have to pay to play. So I won't post a pic unless he oks it. In the future, perhaps someone will buy a KLdRedd needle without this condition and we'll have gloriously googlable pics of the little bugger.

What I can do is describe it, I guess. It looks like a cross between the stock needle and the KLX. You know how the stock needle has that sharp taper at the bottom? Well the KLdRedd elongates that taper upward, so more of the length is thinned out. I don't know the specifics of where that taper stops, or whether the diameters at the point and top are identical to stock. The KLX needle on the other hand goes more straight from sharp to thick all the way up. There's not really a sharp taper on the KLX; it's all tapered. The KLdRedd seems to be a hybrid of the two, which is why I'm interested in trying it.

There, I hope that description is a fair compromise

Quote:
Originally Posted by AFMoulton View Post
Im just here to learn more, what is the difference between this kit and the EM kit? It claims the needle is different, but does anyone have both thats compared them?


2018 KLR 650
Mods in Progress
Clovis NM (till the AF moves me again)
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2017 KLR in black
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post #22 of 191 Old 01-12-2020, 11:26 AM
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It is possible for a good product to get drowned in snake-oil. I happen to believe that AMSOIL is such a product. If they were much more forth-coming with what it is and how it is tested, abandoned the MLM scheme, and worked to strip away the aura of mystique they have wrapped it in I believe they'd sell more of it, especially if it were on the shelf at Auto-Zone.

When I see a product that has claims made about it that defy the known laws of physics and there is not the barest glimmer of an explanation of how it is made, how it works, and the advertising is comprised of a bunch of rather stock-looking photos of everything but the product itself, hell yeah I'm skeptical.

When the seller exhibits some serious personality disorders (some of which all ya'll have not been exposed to) and exhibits a fundamental misunderstanding of some very basic concepts, hell yeah, I'm skeptical. If a person can't get basics right, how can they be trusted to get the more complex things right? If they behave like a raving lunatic, what's to say they are not a raving lunatic?

This could have been so simple. "Lookee here, I've taken the stock KLR needle (or the KLX needle, whatever this modified needle is based on) and reworked it to what I think is an improved profile. I use an "X" main jet and, with the different profile, I believe that I have it working for better fuel economy at the more common part-throttle opening, yet it is quite a bit richer at larger throttle openings for improved full-throttle power. These are compared to the stock KLR needle (or the KLX needle). Here's a picture of the unmodified needle next to the modified needle. I'd rather not share the dimensions but, hopefully, you can see the difference." A simple, clear, rational explanation of 'how' and 'why'.

Instead, we were treated with ranting, raving, wild, unsubstantiated claims, an ever-changing story, vitriolic responses when reasonable and valid questions were asked, and so on.

Tom [email protected]

On the way downtown I stopped at a bar and had a couple of double Scotches. They didn't do me any good. All they did was make me think of Silver-Wig, and I never saw her again. -Philip Marlowe

'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used. -Napoleon Bonaparte

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post #23 of 191 Old 01-12-2020, 11:34 AM
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I couldn't find an EM KLX kit in Canada so I ordered the KLX needle and the 140 main jet from my local Kawasaki dealer.
I installed the needle with the clip in the 2nd groove with a .020 shim under it the 140 main jet and opened the mixture screw to
1 3/4 turns and removed the air box snorkel. My first impression riding the bike was the engine seemed to run smoother and
taking off from a stop it had a little more torque. I kept track of the fuel mileage before the change and was getting around 57
miles per imperial gallon it dropped to 56 miles per imperial gallon after the change. So no significant change in mileage.
I adjusted the idle mixture screw a couple times. Its at 2 turns now.
I think the change was worth the time and effort just for how much nicer the engine runs. My bike is a 2017.

Terry
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Last edited by terry_g; 01-12-2020 at 11:37 AM.
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post #24 of 191 Old 01-12-2020, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Schmitz View Post
It is possible for a good product to get drowned in snake-oil. I happen to believe that AMSOIL is such a product. If they were much more forth-coming with what it is and how it is tested, abandoned the MLM scheme, and worked to strip away the aura of mystique they have wrapped it in I believe they'd sell more of it, especially if it were on the shelf at Auto-Zone.



When I see a product that has claims made about it that defy the known laws of physics and there is not the barest glimmer of an explanation of how it is made, how it works, and the advertising is comprised of a bunch of rather stock-looking photos of everything but the product itself, hell yeah I'm skeptical.



When the seller exhibits some serious personality disorders (some of which all ya'll have not been exposed to) and exhibits a fundamental misunderstanding of some very basic concepts, hell yeah, I'm skeptical. If a person can't get basics right, how can they be trusted to get the more complex things right? If they behave like a raving lunatic, what's to say they are not a raving lunatic?



This could have been so simple. "Lookee here, I've taken the stock KLR needle (or the KLX needle, whatever this modified needle is based on) and reworked it to what I think is an improved profile. I use an "X" main jet and, with the different profile, I believe that I have it working for better fuel economy at the more common part-throttle opening, yet it is quite a bit richer at larger throttle openings for improved full-throttle power. These are compared to the stock KLR needle (or the KLX needle). Here's a picture of the unmodified needle next to the modified needle. I'd rather not share the dimensions but, hopefully, you can see the difference." A simple, clear, rational explanation of 'how' and 'why'.



Instead, we were treated with ranting, raving, wild, unsubstantiated claims, an ever-changing story, vitriolic responses when reasonable and valid questions were asked, and so on.

Well shit. That kind of tells me all I need to know. Thank you for the background on the subject as I see there are deeper rooted issues here.

I guess the track record and the customer service I have received from Mike is all I really need moving forward with the KLX needle kit. Maybe when I have $55 extra bucks laying around Ill buy one and see what the difference is.



2018 KLR 650
Mods in Progress
Clovis NM (till the AF moves me again)
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post #25 of 191 Old 01-12-2020, 11:40 AM
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You have my agreement there. It should be simpler. For me, though, the possibility of moving the needle (haha) on the state of the fuel system is worth putting up with ego stuff. We've all got it anyway… I mean, I'm on here posting several posts all of a sudden when I normally just read over the active posts every few days. Why, dunno. I guess I want to influence the direction of this thing somehow.

Perhaps it's just a conflict-riddled situation and it can stay that way for keeps. I've noticed that for some people, they just love trolling and creating flame wars. It's literally what fuels them. So maybe kicking dredd's arse on the forums is actually contributing to the needle's development, who knows. But I am glad he's doing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Schmitz View Post
When I see a product that has claims made about it that defy the known laws of physics and there is not the barest glimmer of an explanation of how it is made, how it works, and the advertising is comprised of a bunch of rather stock-looking photos of everything but the product itself, hell yeah I'm skeptical.

When the seller exhibits some serious personality disorders (some of which all ya'll have not been exposed to) and exhibits a fundamental misunderstanding of some very basic concepts, hell yeah, I'm skeptical. If a person can't get basics right, how can they be trusted to get the more complex things right? If they behave like a raving lunatic, what's to say they are not a raving lunatic?

This could have been so simple. "Lookee here, I've taken the stock KLR needle (or the KLX needle, whatever this modified needle is based on) and reworked it to what I think is an improved profile. I use an "X" main jet and, with the different profile, I believe that I have it working for better fuel economy at the more common part-throttle opening, yet it is quite a bit richer at larger throttle openings for improved full-throttle power. These are compared to the stock KLR needle (or the KLX needle). Here's a picture of the unmodified needle next to the modified needle. I'd rather not share the dimensions but, hopefully, you can see the difference." A simple, clear, rational explanation of 'how' and 'why'.

2017 KLR in black

Last edited by samuel; 01-12-2020 at 11:42 AM.
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post #26 of 191 Old 01-12-2020, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samuel View Post
It is kinda weird, perhaps bad, form. Contact info and all, and the argument laid out all purdy like. For the record, I'm skeptical of the idea that needle circuit pollution in the pilot circuit is responsible for the oil buring we all know and love. I think Tom and Paul's oil mods approach this in a more plausible manner. I'm not saying erratic mixture can't cause oil burning (perhaps, I have no idea), but to my thinking, excess pressure at the crank sounds super plausible. Especially since in my own experience, oil consumption is very tightly linked to >5K RPM driving.

That said, I've messed around with the carb a lot. I've done the 22 mod and the KLX needle, stepping through a ton (really, a lot) of slight adjustments in order to dial it in according to my, unfortunately novice, perception. And I think the carb is ripe for new developments, much like the oil system was. I'm not saying Dredd's needle is good, I have no idea. I haven't installed it, but I'm curious about it, and I'm not seeing any red flags outside of personality approach. So I'm going to give it a shot.
Hi Samuel,

I'm definitely interested to hear how it works for you. Also curious where your carb setup ended up after all the tinkering and if you might share that info.
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post #27 of 191 Old 01-12-2020, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Schmitz View Post
...vitriolic responses...
Now there's and adjective you don't hear everyday.

Jason
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post #28 of 191 Old 01-12-2020, 12:10 PM
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We will let that be our word for the day.

Tom [email protected]

On the way downtown I stopped at a bar and had a couple of double Scotches. They didn't do me any good. All they did was make me think of Silver-Wig, and I never saw her again. -Philip Marlowe

'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used. -Napoleon Bonaparte

Sting like a butterfly.
Noli Timere Messorem
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post #29 of 191 Old 01-12-2020, 12:23 PM
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“Vitriolic” is a completely ubiquitous and perfectly cromulent word.
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post #30 of 191 Old 01-12-2020, 12:23 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AFMoulton View Post
Im just here to learn more, what is the difference between this kit and the EM kit? It claims the needle is different, but does anyone have both thats compared them?


2018 KLR 650
Mods in Progress
Clovis NM (till the AF moves me again)
I had my bike stock for a while, then went for the EM KLX kit. More power, etc but at the cost of fuel economy and wasn't a smooth delivery. The new kit I mentioned above is better than the KLX kit and I won't be going back. Sorry if my thoughts looked too laid out and organized (thought that might be helpful to everyone), but was trying to think through what I was experiencing during my ride. Not getting any $$, etc for my comments here and don't know the guy who developed it. Just wanted to share my good news with the group that I've enjoyed and learned from over the last few years. Didn't mean to start an "oil" thread. Hoping to ride more this afternoon since the local Ga weather is in the 60's.

Sammy

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
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