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New Carb Setup - Loving it!

33K views 134 replies 20 participants last post by  Sammy_Groover 
#1 ·
Got the carb kit below and installed it on my 2014.5 KLR. I had upgraded to the EM KLX kit last year, and while I loved it over stock, still wasn't totally happy and wanted better gas mileage. Below are some findings from a 43 mile mixed (dirt and pavement) ride today.

I plan on putting more miles on soon (and really look forward to it [emoji846]). I think this guy was on the forum a while back while he was developing his needle, etc. Per an agreement with him, due to the newness of his kit, I'm not able to share hardware specifics, but happy to share my "seat-of-the-pants" riding impression.

Please know, I'm not like many of you on here that are great mechanics and have wonderful engineering minds. I'm an old farm boy that loves riding and tinkering with my bikes. I have learned and implemented many things from you all and just wanted to share what I see as a very positive upgrade for my beloved KLR. YMMV and I'm not claiming to be an expert, just one happy KLR rider thanks to this kit.

https://www.facebook.com/pg/LloydminsterSmallEngine/photos/?tab=album&album_id=760397424427861

Impressions from my ride today:

1. Very smooth power delivery in all ranges
2. Power always on tap and ready when you need it.
3. Pulls hard and smooth without any hesitation in all typical RPM ranges.
4. Crisp throttle response throughout power band.
5. Better off-road experience overall due to better throttle response (no bogging down in higher gears and ready to pull if needed).
6. More predictable at slower speeds (off-road is great!) due to no lagging or hesitation.
7. Filled up before and after my ride and happily report 46.1 mpg (US gallons). Didn't baby it at all and hit 70 several times (on pavement [emoji846]).
8. Overall RPM's seem lower at all speeds and engine seems calmer. Around 4700-4800 RPM at 70 (from GPS) with a 16 tooth front sprocket.
9. As peppy as the KLX needle (read that fun), but more control, response and better MPG (was getting 43 MPG on that needle at best).

Just wanted to share my good news and not looking to debate any aspect of this. I am just choosing to enjoy it and "ride it like I stole it" LoL

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
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#4 ·
I remember this guy, started an epic fight ! i was new at the time but found it very entertaining ! ! !...
No, you showed up with a new username after you were banned, JdgDReDD, and now you're going back to the same behaviours that got you banned. I wondered how long it would take.

Adios.
 
#5 ·
Interesting how Sammy_Groover ends his post with LOL... like KLR Jo, Jdg DReDD before him... and one other former contributor long gone that I won't mention. I suspect some folks like to kick back with a cool one, and get their jollies trolling on forums... certainly the case here. Some folks, their writing style really has a unique signature, not that difficult to pick 'em out. I'm not a fan of that trolling crap, as IMO it dilutes the amount of good content here, affects the signal-to-noise ratio.
 
#11 ·
As I'm sure you are aware, the stock carburetor setup is pretty darn lean from just off idle to ~1/4 throttle. The KLX needle kit from Eagle Mike does a great job of evening out the mixture across the full throttle range. Hundreds of KLR riders have installed the KLX kit and have reported impressive carburetor performance improvements.

Jason
 
#12 ·
There's also a certain cadence of language, kind of odd grammar usage (or non-usage), and a "tone" that gives it away. I don't think I would have noticed it if it wasn't pointed out. Mainly, it just has a false feeling of selling something. So it's a fake review pointing to his own facebook page selling his kit. How do some people look at themselves in the mirror?
 
#18 ·
Sammy, sorry about that. Personally, I am oh so suspect of someone that shows up claiming their new cure-all carb needle will fix the (un-related) oil consumption problem, shamelessly plugging their jetting kit (being sold on eBay BTW) on this forum, AND the advrider KLR Only thread (posts since deleted).

So, if you look at the Facebook link, you'll see the contact info, Lloydminster Small Engine Repair; i.e. self serving commercial post.
 
#21 ·
At the risk of sounding like an a-hole, I'll say that dredd asked those who have seen the needle to not post pics, and I agreed to it. I think this is a questionable position to take, since it contributes to drama and makes his needle sound like snake oil, but sometimes you have to pay to play. So I won't post a pic unless he oks it. In the future, perhaps someone will buy a KLdRedd needle without this condition and we'll have gloriously googlable pics of the little bugger.

What I can do is describe it, I guess. It looks like a cross between the stock needle and the KLX. You know how the stock needle has that sharp taper at the bottom? Well the KLdRedd elongates that taper upward, so more of the length is thinned out. I don't know the specifics of where that taper stops, or whether the diameters at the point and top are identical to stock. The KLX needle on the other hand goes more straight from sharp to thick all the way up. There's not really a sharp taper on the KLX; it's all tapered. The KLdRedd seems to be a hybrid of the two, which is why I'm interested in trying it.

There, I hope that description is a fair compromise :SadSigh::SadSigh:
 
#20 ·
I can vouch for @Sammy_Groover 's reality, as we have corresponded for a long time. I can vouch for @samuel's reality, as we have met in meat-space and wrenched.
 
#22 ·
It is possible for a good product to get drowned in snake-oil. I happen to believe that AMSOIL is such a product. If they were much more forth-coming with what it is and how it is tested, abandoned the MLM scheme, and worked to strip away the aura of mystique they have wrapped it in I believe they'd sell more of it, especially if it were on the shelf at Auto-Zone.

When I see a product that has claims made about it that defy the known laws of physics and there is not the barest glimmer of an explanation of how it is made, how it works, and the advertising is comprised of a bunch of rather stock-looking photos of everything but the product itself, hell yeah I'm skeptical.

When the seller exhibits some serious personality disorders (some of which all ya'll have not been exposed to) and exhibits a fundamental misunderstanding of some very basic concepts, hell yeah, I'm skeptical. If a person can't get basics right, how can they be trusted to get the more complex things right? If they behave like a raving lunatic, what's to say they are not a raving lunatic?

This could have been so simple. "Lookee here, I've taken the stock KLR needle (or the KLX needle, whatever this modified needle is based on) and reworked it to what I think is an improved profile. I use an "X" main jet and, with the different profile, I believe that I have it working for better fuel economy at the more common part-throttle opening, yet it is quite a bit richer at larger throttle openings for improved full-throttle power. These are compared to the stock KLR needle (or the KLX needle). Here's a picture of the unmodified needle next to the modified needle. I'd rather not share the dimensions but, hopefully, you can see the difference." A simple, clear, rational explanation of 'how' and 'why'.

Instead, we were treated with ranting, raving, wild, unsubstantiated claims, an ever-changing story, vitriolic responses when reasonable and valid questions were asked, and so on.
 
#24 ·
It is possible for a good product to get drowned in snake-oil. I happen to believe that AMSOIL is such a product. If they were much more forth-coming with what it is and how it is tested, abandoned the MLM scheme, and worked to strip away the aura of mystique they have wrapped it in I believe they'd sell more of it, especially if it were on the shelf at Auto-Zone.



When I see a product that has claims made about it that defy the known laws of physics and there is not the barest glimmer of an explanation of how it is made, how it works, and the advertising is comprised of a bunch of rather stock-looking photos of everything but the product itself, hell yeah I'm skeptical.



When the seller exhibits some serious personality disorders (some of which all ya'll have not been exposed to) and exhibits a fundamental misunderstanding of some very basic concepts, hell yeah, I'm skeptical. If a person can't get basics right, how can they be trusted to get the more complex things right? If they behave like a raving lunatic, what's to say they are not a raving lunatic?



This could have been so simple. "Lookee here, I've taken the stock KLR needle (or the KLX needle, whatever this modified needle is based on) and reworked it to what I think is an improved profile. I use an "X" main jet and, with the different profile, I believe that I have it working for better fuel economy at the more common part-throttle opening, yet it is quite a bit richer at larger throttle openings for improved full-throttle power. These are compared to the stock KLR needle (or the KLX needle). Here's a picture of the unmodified needle next to the modified needle. I'd rather not share the dimensions but, hopefully, you can see the difference." A simple, clear, rational explanation of 'how' and 'why'.



Instead, we were treated with ranting, raving, wild, unsubstantiated claims, an ever-changing story, vitriolic responses when reasonable and valid questions were asked, and so on.

Well shit. That kind of tells me all I need to know. Thank you for the background on the subject as I see there are deeper rooted issues here.

I guess the track record and the customer service I have received from Mike is all I really need moving forward with the KLX needle kit. Maybe when I have $55 extra bucks laying around I’ll buy one and see what the difference is.



2018 KLR 650
Mods in Progress
Clovis NM (till the AF moves me again)
 
#23 · (Edited)
I couldn't find an EM KLX kit in Canada so I ordered the KLX needle and the 140 main jet from my local Kawasaki dealer.
I installed the needle with the clip in the 2nd groove with a .020 shim under it the 140 main jet and opened the mixture screw to
1 3/4 turns and removed the air box snorkel. My first impression riding the bike was the engine seemed to run smoother and
taking off from a stop it had a little more torque. I kept track of the fuel mileage before the change and was getting around 57
miles per imperial gallon it dropped to 56 miles per imperial gallon after the change. So no significant change in mileage.
I adjusted the idle mixture screw a couple times. Its at 2 turns now.
I think the change was worth the time and effort just for how much nicer the engine runs. My bike is a 2017.

Terry
 
#35 ·
A modest proposal:

Before-and-after dyno runs with air/fuel chart; or . . . at least, before-and-after air/fuel numbers.

Or, . . . before-and-after drag strip timing slips.

Even . . . dare I suggest? Before-and-after top speed runs (closed course, professional rider, certainly)!

Controlled, before-and-after identical route and speed fuel mileage measurements.

Valid performance gains should be measurable, I'd think, with precision and accuracy beyond seat-of-the-pants dyno capabilities.

Or, maybe not! Maybe, one has to BE THERE!

:)

DISCLAIMER: With an open mind, though skeptical: I do not dismiss the possibility of an, "Eureka/Voila" moment, revolutionizing CVK40 (and maybe, our Harley brethrens' CV40) carb tuning.
 
#37 ·
A modest proposal:

Before-and-after dyno runs with air/fuel chart; or . . . at least, before-and-after air/fuel numbers.

Or, . . . before-and-after drag strip timing slips.

Even . . . dare I suggest? Before-and-after top speed runs (closed course, professional rider, certainly)!

Controlled, before-and-after identical route and speed fuel mileage measurements.

Valid performance gains should be measurable, I'd think, with precision and accuracy beyond seat-of-the-pants dyno capabilities.

Or, maybe not! Maybe, one has to BE THERE!

:)

Yep, that's what it would take to PROVE anything.....but I'm not holding my breath. Even the "inventor" came on at one point and said the KLX needle did the same thing and is easier.

There is no free ride and no needle can bend or break the laws of physics; you either get an optimal air fuel mixture throughout the throttle range or you don't.....not that hard a concept. The reason the KLX needle costs a couple MPG over stock is because stock is overly lean at the part throttle position one tends to ride at - but this isn't a good way to acheive better economy IMO!

a proper computerized fuel injection system can give you equal performance (to a proper needle and jetting) with better mileage but a different shaped needle is just moving the mixture around a bit. Indeed a side by side AF comparison at all throttle positions or a dyno graph of both would likely prove what most of us already suspect.

Dave
 
#38 ·
But wait, there's another LOL in his Facebook posts... this from one of them:

" It's a bit unbelievable how every throttle position in the carburetor the mixture is off right from factory. aka ALL OF THEM lol "

How did all of us riding & wrenching on KLRs these last 30+ years ever get by!? Apparently everyone else in the world owning and operating KLRs have been duped by Kawasaki (not)!
 
#39 ·
Pedantic? Maybe! Not intended so; just some common considerations for further discussion:



From, "Care and Feeding." Not that this was handed down from Mt. Sinai, but--reflects opinions/perceptions of the drafters of carburetor components affecting mixture at different throttle settings.
 
#40 ·
Posted by 'Dredd himself;

The KLX needle is the way to go. The stock needle can easily be modified to work fine, but the KLX needle is the answer.

I ended up in nearly exactly the same place with my stock needle custom grind and a 40 pilot compared to the 42 pilot and the KLX needle. (the latter does work better and less fuss) BOTH WITH THE O RING INSTALLED.

All this messing around because of not checking my jet drills. This is the set up i thought should work in the FIRST PLACE before i started messing with grinding the needle.




....not sure why anyone would want to bother with his one-off custom needle after he himself said this.

Dave
 
#41 ·
My concern about modifying an existing needle is that you will destroy the anodizing in the area where the needle is being modified. And it's my understanding that anodized surfaces are harder than bare aluminum, so the rate of wear in the areas where the needle has been modified will be greater than an unmodified needle.

Jason
 
#42 ·
My issues is, I have the EM KLX kit on hand ready to go. Do I drop the other $55 and get this kit just to see? Or is it something I’ll really need?

My riding will be (in reality) 90% commute, 10% trails/logging roads. Maybe one day when I don’t have to deal with work I’ll change that drastically.


2018 KLR 650
Mods in Progress
Clovis NM (till the AF moves me again)
 
#46 ·
My biggest concern with any hand modified jets or needles has been about Consistent Repeatabilty. Especially if being offered for sale.

People just do not understand, just How Much a mere one thousands of an inch of difference in jet hole size, needle diameter and precision of finish affects fuel flow thru and around these carburetor parts!!
 
#50 ·
I'd expect it to perform better than stock.....just like the KLX kit. Not trying to beat a dead horse but unless you tried both and did a scientific study on the difference all you'll have is butt dynos and confirmation bias. Until or unless somebody does that, it's all just idle chatter.


Dave
 
#57 ·
Guys, I'm not on the bike today (work stuff [emoji853]), put from what I remember from my ride Sunday, I was running around 4700-4800 RPM at 70 (from GPS) with a 16 tooth front sprocket (stock rear sprocket). You guys are smarter than me and can do the ratios, etc to confirm, etc. Not trying to make any fake claims, but I think the bike is running overall stronger, smoother and "calmer". Regardless of agreement, I'm one happy user. But as always, YMMV.

Sammy

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
 
#59 ·
Maybe Sammy installed the 16T after riding the jet kit only once around the block?

Hopefully he understands that jetting can't change the rpm between the engine & the wheel. If not, he will now.
But smoother, quieter, calmer, stronger are possible.
 
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