MCP carb kit for KLR 650 - Page 2 - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions For repair, maintaining or modifying discussions related to the newly updated 2008 and beyond, Generation 2 KLR650 Motorcycle.

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post #11 of 43 Old 03-03-2020, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry_g View Post
I wonder if this kit makes the KLR burn more fuel even though the seller claims it improves mileage.
Unless the applicable physical/chemical laws are repealed or amended, an engine develops power by processing fuel. Staking out a controversial concept, more power requires processing more fuel per unit time.

Thus, the stated performance improvements, more power and better fuel economy simultaneously available, might appear antagonistic and contradictory.

Regardless, the basic operational mechanics regarding the METHOD whereby the developmental needle achieves the claimed performance improvements remain interesting, but unknown and unmeasured, no matter how consistently precise needles are manufactured, seems to me.

I wonder, HOW does the developmental needle produce its claimed performance improvements? But, that's probably just ME!

Nonetheless, best wishes to the kit manufacturer, vendor, and users; enjoy!
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“You better put down that gun. You got two ways to go, put it down or use it. Even if you tie me, you’re gonna be dead.” "John Russell" (Paul Newman), [I]Hombre[/I]
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post #12 of 43 Old 03-03-2020, 09:21 PM
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I hope someone with the tools/testing equipment mentioned above and knowledge can try the MCP kit and provide some data. That would help us all to see in a quantifiable way any results achieved. I would if possible, but way above my paygrade. I only know what I've done with going from stock to KLX to MCP and the results I'm seeing at each step (objective I know). The data would either confirm or dispute what we are experiencing with our wrists and seat of the pants dyno. Would be interesting to see.

Sammy

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post #13 of 43 Old 03-03-2020, 09:36 PM
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Originally Posted by terry_g View Post
Years ago I had a BMW R1100S. It was a good machine but I did not ride it enough so I let it go.

I installed a different air inlet duct to the air filter housing and removed the baffle in the crossover

pipe at the exhaust headers. which helped the performance a bit. BMW claimed 99HP but I always have to tinker.

Stock it ran quite lean for emissions reasons. It surged a bit under light load at mid speeds. So I installed a fuel injection controller on it.

The controller had 4 screws that allowed adjusting the mixture at various throttle openings.

One screw was supposed to act like an accelerator pump on a carb.

I played with it to where I got a big increase in performance and throttle response.

I was more than surprised at how much more power I was able to get with just enriching the mixture.

I was also surprised when the fuel light came on when it should have had more than half a tank left.

I calculated the mileage and it was about half of what I got with the stock fuel system which was around 55MPG with a mix of city and highway.

I dial the adjustments back to where it ran smooth had slightly more power and throttle response and left it there.

The mileage dropped by around 10% from the factory settings. I felt it was worth it for the gains.



I wonder if this kit makes the KLR burn more fuel even though the seller claims it improves mileage.



Terry
Terry, regarding mpg, my results so far with limited riding (200 to 300 miles) with the MCP kit is shown below (note I have the large metal Tusk panniers which catch a lot of air so my mpg could be lower than some others).

KLX mpg (US) was 43
MCP mpg (US) was 46.1

This was riding hard (up to 70) around secondary roads with both needles. Of course, YMMV.

Sammy

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post #14 of 43 Old 03-04-2020, 12:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammy_Groover View Post
I hope someone with the tools/testing equipment mentioned above and knowledge can try the MCP kit and provide some data. That would help us all to see in a quantifiable way any results achieved.
Good point. If I were a manufacturer trying to get the masses to believe in my product, I'd lead my advertising campaign with certifiable knowledge done from such testing. There's not even likening to put a screen door in a boat (ie. visible proof that a product works at least for the length of a commercial). Everything I've read on this product coming to market is based with claims containing wish, boast or hope. But it's not full of data. I didn't chime in on the first thread of this because it got a bit...well it needed to be put to bed, but that's my comment since the OP asked for them.

BTW, I like for things/people to succeed. I work with small independent shops all over the states in my career. I purchase more from EM on parts that I could source elsewhere, because I respect and want to support that knowledge base and his business model. It's trusted for a reason.

To close, if the accuracy in a needle is pridefully (and it should be) measured to the ten thousandth.... I think one has a basic understanding of verifiable data. Cart/horse.
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post #15 of 43 Old 03-04-2020, 09:58 AM
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I'll go a step further;

- Damocles is correct; there is no free ride.....generally more power = more fuel

- the reason the KLX kit makes a bit more power than stock and also uses a bit more fuel is because it corrects an EPA driven overly lean condition and a bad fueling curve....compared to the KLX kit, the MCP kit isn't correcting a lean condition as the KLX air/fuel ratio is pretty spot on - as proven many times. ....could this mystery needle have a better fueling curve than the Kawasaki engineered KLX650R needle? sure, anything is possible......but even if it does, the difference would be marginal.

- I'll await some credible testing but I'll be extremely surprised if this kit develops even 1 more hp than a properly dialed KLX kit.......and I'll put money against the possibility of it making 15 - 20% more power (5.5 - 7.5hp) as is being bandied about. There have been people that have installed flat slide carbs, bigger carbs and EFI and they haven't seen the power difference that people are alleging here from the stock CV carb with a different needle.


2 cents,
Dave
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post #16 of 43 Old 03-04-2020, 02:17 PM
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Not entirely pleased to quote a politician leaving the Presidential Primary Election today, here's how he said (in his withdrawal speech) he ran his billions-of-dollars business:

The company slogan was, "In God we trust; all others bring data!"

And, regardless of his desirability as a candidate (no comment from me), he IS a multi-billionaire!


“You better put down that gun. You got two ways to go, put it down or use it. Even if you tie me, you’re gonna be dead.” "John Russell" (Paul Newman), [I]Hombre[/I]
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post #17 of 43 Old 03-04-2020, 03:30 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
....there is no free ride.....generally more power = more fuel
Dave, thank you for your logical and concise comments and conclusions. I've read many of the things you put out there regarding the big KLR, and I value your input.

I agree with you that generally more power equals more fuel consumption. However, is it possible in your estimation, that an improvement in efficiency could lead to increased power and reduced fuel consumption simultaneously?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
....I'll be extremely surprised if this kit develops even 1 more hp than a properly dialed KLX kit.......and I'll put money against the possibility of it making 15 - 20% more power (5.5 - 7.5hp) as is being bandied about.
Again, you are probably right about the gains not truly being 15 to 20%. However, that is the nature of subjective evaluation of a power curve. I gave my best effort evaluation with the tools I had at hand (seat of my pants) and made it quite clear that was the case. It's clearly stated that no instrumentation of any sort was used in the review.

I know I'm not the big guy upstairs, so it's no surprise to me that you clearly expect data. Unfortunately, I do not have the means to generate any meaningful data.


Would one of you gentlemen that does have the means for scientific comparison be interested in evaluating a carb kit? I'm sure the company would be glad to get one in your hands for testing and evaluation purposes. I'm pretty sure he strongly believes in his product and has no fear at all.
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post #18 of 43 Old 03-04-2020, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Enginerd View Post
Dave, thank you for your logical and concise comments and conclusions. I've read many of the things you put out there regarding the big KLR, and I value your input.

I agree with you that generally more power equals more fuel consumption. However, is it possible in your estimation, that an improvement in efficiency could lead to increased power and reduced fuel consumption simultaneously?
Yes, such is the case with fuel injection (though the power gains aren't signficant vs. a properly jetted carb, it's more about the economy)....but I guess I remain unconvinced that this kit contains anything likely to improve efficiency; it's still the same carb regardless of what main jet or needle we use. EFI has the ability to increase efficiency by changing the AFR depending on the throttle/load....no regular carb can do that.

Thank you for the kind words. I appreciate your post and believe that you (and Sammy) are being honest and forthright in your evaluations....it's the bending of the laws of physics that I can't get my head around.

I don't have a dyno or an AFR/02 tester but I will be happy to donate towards the effort for someone that has the tools and time to install one and get back to back testing done vs. a properly jetted KLX kit .

Dave
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post #19 of 43 Old 03-04-2020, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Enginerd View Post
I agree with you that generally more power equals more fuel consumption. However, is it possible in your estimation, that an improvement in efficiency could lead to increased power and reduced fuel consumption simultaneously?
COLD FUSION has been detected, some say; but . . . only in the state of Utah!

What, Enginerd, would be the souce/method/technique for producing the conjectured, "improvement in efficiency?'"

Optimum air/fuel ratios remain known, tested, proven. What mystical MCP needle configuration characteristics enhance OPTIMUM air/fuel ratios? "Improving efficiency?" How is this improved efficiency obtained?

Again, may all your perceptions be reality. Yet, maybe they are, already! Regardless, YOU are the only one to be pleased by your bike and its performance. Best wishes with your enhanced needle; enjoy it and ride on!

Thanks for sharing your own impressions from your personal experience.

“You better put down that gun. You got two ways to go, put it down or use it. Even if you tie me, you’re gonna be dead.” "John Russell" (Paul Newman), [I]Hombre[/I]
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post #20 of 43 Old 03-04-2020, 08:41 PM
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OK, let me say this.

The KLX650-A1 (KLX650R) needle that is so commonly used in the KLR650 CVK carb is from a Newer Generation engine, cylinder head, camshaft & porting profile.

It really doesn't surprise me too much that someone with more machining skills and patience than I, was able to Better Match the fueling needs of a near stock KLR650 with a CUSTOM Cut mid-range needle vs the NON-EPA approved, dirt version only, newer designed intake track, WIDE-OPEN & Large air Filtered DIRT BIKE, mid-range needle.

My reservations dating clear back to the MIDDLE of JudgeDredds original posting had been about Repeatability of a Hand Modified standard oem item.
Plus or Minus .0005 inches can be Huge in the flow of fuel through a vacuum operated carburetor. Just read about all of the 'fuel varnish' issues, daily!
Accuracy to with-in .0002 inches is a Huge Improvement. And a 'No Tools' low speed fuel mixture screw maybe the icing on the cake, for many KLR owners.

+ 3 mpg with similar or better over-all drive-ability is worth considering.

I truly wish MCP the best of success.
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