After market pistons available? - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions For repair, maintaining or modifying discussions related to the newly updated 2008 and beyond, Generation 2 KLR650 Motorcycle.

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post #1 of 12 Old 09-07-2010, 09:54 AM Thread Starter
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After market pistons available?

Ok, so the BIG news is that these (2009) KLR's are drinking oil like a drunk payday night!
It appears as though the rings are not sealing at all times, (seems more when you ride the machine hard and put it away wet)!
I got like 300 miles on mine and before it gets to sucking
I wanna fix it
The dohickey was the first thing, the the 22 cent fix and a few air box holes, now the oil.
I don't wanna go bigger bore.
I'm not intrested going hog wild, big bore, louder exhaust, different carbs, etc.
I just want close to the same oil amount out as installed on a oil change
I'm happy with the way the bike runs with the 22 cent mod.
Screw it, I'll SAY the motor is using a qt every 300 miles to get the dealer to do the labor, but I'll buy the piston-ie.
I've look a bit here and there, but for some reason, no stock bore pistons.
Anyone out there in KLR land repalce your piston?????
Joe
If it's not one thing it's another, why can't they biuld a bike you DON'T have to work on or modify?????
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post #2 of 12 Old 09-07-2010, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe28 View Post
If it's not one thing it's another, why can't they biuld a bike you DON'T have to work on or modify?????
Now, THAT wouldn't be any fun! ;^)

I'm not aware of any stock size piston out there, though it would seem reasonable that there might be better rings.

Thing is, though, most people feel the oil burning is a combination of the rings and an out-of-round cylinder. Conventional wisdom is that it takes a boring to round the cyclinder, and the 685 piston with better rings, to fix the oil burning.

I'm getting serious enough about the 685/705 that I have asked for quotes on the job. However,the cheap side of me is doing the math and it looks like the cost to fix it could pay for 100K miles of extra oil!

Heavy sigh.

What's a boy to do?

Tom

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post #3 of 12 Old 09-07-2010, 11:13 AM
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http://www.topgunmotorcycles.com/Pro...s/klrprod.html

Don H
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'03 KLR 650/DS sidecar
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post #4 of 12 Old 09-07-2010, 11:17 AM
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I stand corrected!

Thanks Don!

Tom

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“The kid poured him another straight rye and I think he doctored it with water down behind the bar because when he came up with it he looked as guilty as if he'd kicked his grandmother.” -Philip Marlowe

“'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used.” -Napoleon Bonaparte

Sting like a butterfly.
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post #5 of 12 Old 09-07-2010, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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From what I've gathered, the cylinder is "flexing" outta round, from heat?? issues or crappy materal, lousy bore job, over torqueing something??
I can remember in the late 70's when Kawi first came out with chrome non borable cylinders, I was racng a 125 and they had this issue, I swear the dealer had to order 4 cylinders for me to make through the race season)!
That was a heat issue if'n I remmeber.
So now, if'n I bore the materail away, won't that weaken the clyinder causing MORE outta round and more earl to be sucked up.
Would a '07?? jug fit to stop this issue?
Joe
Your right, what's a man to do?
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post #6 of 12 Old 09-07-2010, 11:29 AM
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I think the cyclinder is the same from '96 up and is supposed to be borable up to the 685 size. There have been some reports of uneven heat treatment and a weakening from boring, but those are not well confirmed.

Many feel the out of round is due to the thermal shock from the cooling system's cycling, and the Thermo-bob might correct that.

You can replace the sleeve with Schnitz Racing's sleeve, but that's starting to get into cubic dollars...

Tom

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“The kid poured him another straight rye and I think he doctored it with water down behind the bar because when he came up with it he looked as guilty as if he'd kicked his grandmother.” -Philip Marlowe

“'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used.” -Napoleon Bonaparte

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post #7 of 12 Old 09-07-2010, 11:38 AM Thread Starter
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So prehaps the next step in "the making of Joe's bullet proof KLR" is the Thremo Bob's fix?
I'll get of of thoses and continue my quest for a good piston-ie
Joe
What else can I spend my $$ on?? My jeep is done, the Harley is "Farkled out as much as I dare, My Royal Enfield, well, it's done and green!
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post #8 of 12 Old 09-07-2010, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe28 View Post
Ok, so the BIG news is that these (2009) KLR's are drinking oil like a drunk payday night!
It appears as though the rings are not sealing at all times, (seems more when you ride the machine hard and put it away wet)!
I got like 300 miles on mine and before it gets to sucking
I wanna fix it
The dohickey was the first thing, the the 22 cent fix and a few air box holes, now the oil.
I don't wanna go bigger bore.
I'm not intrested going hog wild, big bore, louder exhaust, different carbs, etc.
I just want close to the same oil amount out as installed on a oil change
I'm happy with the way the bike runs with the 22 cent mod.
Screw it, I'll SAY the motor is using a qt every 300 miles to get the dealer to do the labor, but I'll buy the piston-ie.
I've look a bit here and there, but for some reason, no stock bore pistons.
Anyone out there in KLR land repalce your piston?????
Joe
If it's not one thing it's another, why can't they biuld a bike you DON'T have to work on or modify?????

The dealer will do a oil useage test to determine if your bike uses more than the 1qt/1K miles "standard". They will fill the motor and seal the filler cap. You go ride and bring it back to them. They measure and determine oil useage not you for waranty issues. Also the dealer has to replace with OEM parts to maintain the warranty.

Rocky Mt. has the OEM piston standard and oversize but I wouldn't go with OEM. It costs about half of what a 685 kit would anyway.

No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him. 1 Cor 2:9
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post #9 of 12 Old 09-07-2010, 12:30 PM
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The bottom offering is stock bore diameter.

http://wossneronline.com/forged_pist...roducts_id=524

If the problem was isolated to the rings, new rings would be the solution, wouldn't you agree?. There are a number of custom ring manufacturers out there, who will for about $60.00 make and fit a custom set of rings for the KLR 650. Replacing rings has not produced high improvements in oil consumption. There isn't any real magic to a piston. It is machined to plug a void to a tolerance that provides the most blockage with the least amount of friction and resistance. The finish work is supplied and performed by the rings. The piston may lend itself to balance issues, increasing or decreasing vibration, but on the whole, a piston plugs a void. I'm not sure what part a stock sized replacement piston will play in reducing oil consumption. Oil consumption contributors within the cylinder assembly would be limited to about one more item....the cylinder liner. I contend that much of the oil consumption problem lies in harmonic distortions occurring at different heat and friction levels within that cylinder liner. A machined liner supplied to the minimum specifications by the lowest bidder, composed of the lowest quality acceptable material might encounter some performance reliability issues. And that description aptly covers the internal components that affect oil consumption on a KLR 650. Pair that description with loose tolerance within Quality Control programs, and you have a very high number of oil burners.

The harmonic distortions in the cylinder liner I suspect are minimal to considerable, depending on operating conditions and RPM's. I also suspect that due to the design of the liner, shape memory comes into play as the components cool to ambient temperature, masking the amount of distortion the liner is experiencing while at higher temperatures and stresses.
I'm leaning more towards the solution being in liner replacement than rings and piston. The supplier of the rings is experiencing success in other applications with the same design. The piston is little more than something to attach the rings to, providing they remain intact. There has been little said about piston failure on this bike. In my mind, most fingers are pointing to the cylinder liner.

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post #10 of 12 Old 09-07-2010, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vatrader View Post
The bottom offering is stock bore diameter.

http://wossneronline.com/forged_pist...roducts_id=524

If the problem was isolated to the rings, new rings would be the solution, wouldn't you agree?. There are a number of custom ring manufacturers out there, who will for about $60.00 make and fit a custom set of rings for the KLR 650. Replacing rings has not produced high improvements in oil consumption. There isn't any real magic to a piston. It is machined to plug a void to a tolerance that provides the most blockage with the least amount of friction and resistance. The finish work is supplied and performed by the rings. The piston may lend itself to balance issues, increasing or decreasing vibration, but on the whole, a piston plugs a void. I'm not sure what part a stock sized replacement piston will play in reducing oil consumption. Oil consumption contributors within the cylinder assembly would be limited to about one more item....the cylinder liner. I contend that much of the oil consumption problem lies in harmonic distortions occurring at different heat and friction levels within that cylinder liner. A machined liner supplied to the minimum specifications by the lowest bidder, composed of the lowest quality acceptable material might encounter some performance reliability issues. And that description aptly covers the internal components that affect oil consumption on a KLR 650. Pair that description with loose tolerance within Quality Control programs, and you have a very high number of oil burners.

The harmonic distortions in the cylinder liner I suspect are minimal to considerable, depending on operating conditions and RPM's. I also suspect that due to the design of the liner, shape memory comes into play as the components cool to ambient temperature, masking the amount of distortion the liner is experiencing while at higher temperatures and stresses.
I'm leaning more towards the solution being in liner replacement than rings and piston. The supplier of the rings is experiencing success in other applications with the same design. The piston is little more than something to attach the rings to, providing they remain intact. There has been little said about piston failure on this bike. In my mind, most fingers are pointing to the cylinder liner.


Boring the OEM liner and going with the 685 kit seems to stop the oil usage. So the liner doesn't seem to be the problem. Of course if the original manufacturing was suspect somehow that could contribute. The liner is pressed in after the cylinder is bored, maybe something in that process is faulty at the factory?

I think it's a combination of the OEM rings and the increased cooling capacity (with the non-bypass system), 2 things that Kawasaki advertised as new and improved on the Gen 2 bikes, coincidence? I wonder if anyone has stuck a Gen 1 cylinder on a new model, hmm....

I've read of somone replacing the rings with an aftermarket set that have higher tension (standard size) and he reported oil usage. His liner apparently was allready distorted/out of round/whatever.

One of the reasons I bought a new KLR is that I thought that the motor had stood the test of time. I knew about the doo and was willing to deal with it. I didn't expect the oil burning and am disapointed that Kaw won't own up to it. That's going to make it hard for me to buy new from them ever again.

No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him. 1 Cor 2:9

Last edited by Spec; 09-07-2010 at 04:18 PM.
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