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post #21 of 42 Old 03-31-2013, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
I'd actually like boots with NO laces. Getting a lace stuck in a chain sounds like impending doom.
For as high buck as those motocross boots are, I've seen some with buckles, but I'm surprised they don't use Boa's lacing system. So many snowboard boot manufacturers use their ratcheting wire lacing system.
http://www.boatechnology.com/why-boa/#/what-is-boa
(and none of those cost anywhere close to $900 - or 1/3rd of that even)
I saw a post one time where the poster went to stop at a light. As he put his foot down the loop of the lace hooked around the footpeg. He fell over sideways against the car next to him. One in a million!!
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post #22 of 42 Old 03-31-2013, 08:14 PM
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Good Evening Geo,

Welcome to "The" forum. Its a great place haunted by great people who can offer even better advice.

If you are choosing between the sample pictures in your post, I would choose the Icons. They are a little short but will protect the piggies.

I personally went out and spent some good coin on a pair of "In Town" boots, that could be worn in front of clients. They are the Alpinstar bootshttp://www.alpinestars.com/moto/footwear/net-air-boot.html- . Most of the time I will pack my dress shoes in a pannier and switch in the head.
I also bought the Sidi Crossfire -http://www.sidisport.com/eng/scheda.php?macro=2&id=27

I did follow the rule that you are following: not spending a lot of money until you figure out what you want to do or how you want to ride. It is a smart rule. I am very keen on keeping all of my piggies and enjoy hiking. I hope you have succes in finding the perfect combination.

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post #23 of 42 Old 03-31-2013, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
I'd actually like boots with NO laces. Getting a lace stuck in a chain sounds like impending doom.
For as high buck as those motocross boots are, I've seen some with buckles, but I'm surprised they don't use Boa's lacing system. So many snowboard boot manufacturers use their ratcheting wire lacing system.
http://www.boatechnology.com/why-boa/#/what-is-boa
(and none of those cost anywhere close to $900 - or 1/3rd of that even)
^^^^^^ this and.....

http://stores.sportbiketrackgear.com...rel%3AFootwear

here are BOA riding shoes for under $200. dont know what else are out there, kinda stinks.... japan company dont make anything bigger than a us 10 i think. those tour masters 2.0 solution dont have anything, just a water proof zipper and velcro on the side....
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post #24 of 42 Old 03-31-2013, 09:13 PM
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Laces can also get hung up on the foot peg making it difficult to get your foot to the ground. This has happened to me a few times. It's worse if you have serrated pegs.

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post #25 of 42 Old 03-31-2013, 10:35 PM
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Another vote for restricting your search to motorcycle-specific boots. Think of the added ankle protection.
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post #26 of 42 Old 04-01-2013, 08:12 AM Thread Starter
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I'm not sure where "ankle protection" factors in, I'm curious how people are perceiving "ankle protection", meaning - what risk scenarios are you picturing protecting from?

Not to keep returning to this, but I've spent a long time in action sports, where a fall can easily twist or break an ankle (or leg) - that's from a sort of hyperextension - and that type of injury seems unlikely on a motorcycle...
...unless, again, commenters here are envisioning my forging my own paths off road, going mudding, and otherwise envisioning a scenario where I've got to step off the bike, and end up stepping on a branch or in a hole unexpectedly, twisting the ankle? I can see and understand that risk - but have to restate my initial intents are to ride probably 60%-70% on-road at least, with the remainder being on dirt/gravel roads (like former railroad beds and power-line service roads).

The other sort of "ankle protection", as Tom's picture shows, the thought of "dropping your bike" on your leg is not a hyperextension. Really whether the bike falls on your foot, your ankle, your leg is somewhat inconsequential in that scenario - and I'm feeling like a set of crash bars (which will reduce the collision height of a fallen bike - and are built from steel) are a better protection from that sort of injury than a boot of any height (which is built simply from leather). I understand that there's some protection there, but it seems marginal and secondary rather than the designed intention (unless these uppers are made from something crush-resistant like carbon fiber).

Back in the '80's, we used to skate in shoes that were high-tops - for the ankle protection (sounds familiar, right? ). The downside was a trade-off in ankle flexibility that is often required not only to do some moves competitively, but also to stay safe in an active (rather than passive - "wear restrictive protection") way.
Today - and for the past 10 or 15 years - I don't think you can find a high-top skateboarding shoe.

To extrapolate that to motorcycling - I was reading reviews on some of the footwear recommended, and hearing complaints about it being difficult to shift and brake with some of these boots that seem to aim to immobilize the ankle, and that is a tick mark on the "disadvantage" side of the equation, and sounds a bit like a repeat of history with some of the other sports I've been involved in.

Again, I'm looking to make a practical choice here, that's going to facilitate my riding skills initially particularly.

When people say "ankle protection", I'm curious which scenario is being advised that I seek to protect against?
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post #27 of 42 Old 04-01-2013, 10:14 AM
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Having been in several off road spills that my boots have been a savior I know that if in one on the road it would be even more of a benefit to have something protective. I wear Oneal 2012 Element MX Motorcycle Boots.
I like the price and fit. Have been wearing them for years, I just change into my steel toe work boots when I get to work.
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post #28 of 42 Old 04-01-2013, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
I'm not sure where "ankle protection" factors in, I'm curious how people are perceiving "ankle protection", meaning - what risk scenarios are you picturing protecting from?

Not to keep returning to this, but I've spent a long time in action sports, where a fall can easily twist or break an ankle (or leg) - that's from a sort of hyperextension - and that type of injury seems unlikely on a motorcycle...
...unless, again, commenters here are envisioning my forging my own paths off road, going mudding, and otherwise envisioning a scenario where I've got to step off the bike, and end up stepping on a branch or in a hole unexpectedly, twisting the ankle? I can see and understand that risk - but have to restate my initial intents are to ride probably 60%-70% on-road at least, with the remainder being on dirt/gravel roads (like former railroad beds and power-line service roads).

The other sort of "ankle protection", as Tom's picture shows, the thought of "dropping your bike" on your leg is not a hyperextension. Really whether the bike falls on your foot, your ankle, your leg is somewhat inconsequential in that scenario - and I'm feeling like a set of crash bars (which will reduce the collision height of a fallen bike - and are built from steel) are a better protection from that sort of injury than a boot of any height (which is built simply from leather). I understand that there's some protection there, but it seems marginal and secondary rather than the designed intention (unless these uppers are made from something crush-resistant like carbon fiber).

Back in the '80's, we used to skate in shoes that were high-tops - for the ankle protection (sounds familiar, right? ). The downside was a trade-off in ankle flexibility that is often required not only to do some moves competitively, but also to stay safe in an active (rather than passive - "wear restrictive protection") way.
Today - and for the past 10 or 15 years - I don't think you can find a high-top skateboarding shoe.

To extrapolate that to motorcycling - I was reading reviews on some of the footwear recommended, and hearing complaints about it being difficult to shift and brake with some of these boots that seem to aim to immobilize the ankle, and that is a tick mark on the "disadvantage" side of the equation, and sounds a bit like a repeat of history with some of the other sports I've been involved in.

Again, I'm looking to make a practical choice here, that's going to facilitate my riding skills initially particularly.

When people say "ankle protection", I'm curious which scenario is being advised that I seek to protect against?

Look you have experienced riders advising you (complete with graphic pictures and descriptions of injuries) to buy motorcycle specific boots, high top stiff and protective. Motorcycles are not bicycles. You'll learn how to shift and brake by moving you feet.

You can ride in flip flops a speedo and a beenie helmet your choice. Done with this thread.

No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him. 1 Cor 2:9
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post #29 of 42 Old 04-01-2013, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geolemon View Post
I'm not sure where "ankle protection" factors in, I'm curious how people are perceiving "ankle protection", meaning - what risk scenarios are you picturing protecting from?
Coming off off-road is definitely a factor; you can find yourself putting a foot down on uneven rocks with the weight of the bike on it, and having an ankle that's stiffer than a hiking boot can do nothing but help.

Another factor offroad is if you take a rock, branch, or stump, or footpeg to the shin.

But if you come off on the road, the forces your ankle is likely to endure can be fairly extreme, arguing for extreme stiffness of the ankle, not to mention the amount of asphalt the ankle might grind across.

Quote:
Not to keep returning to this, but I've spent a long time in action sports, where a fall can easily twist or break an ankle (or leg) - that's from a sort of hyperextension - and that type of injury seems unlikely on a motorcycle...
Likely, unlikely... the only reason we wear gear is because we might crash, and we hope the gear will save us. I was at an on-road accident scene a couple weeks ago where a biker had his leg ripped off. (He did not survive.) Likely or not, twisting and grinding ankle injuries are completely possible.

If you come off the bike and land on your feet, an ankle twist is likely from all the videos I've seen. If you don't land on your feet but stop yourself with your feet, there's a chance of damage there.

That said, many (most?) riders might go their entire lives without suffering a substantial ankle injury, regardless of the level of protection. Most riders don't end up in an at-fault accident, either, but they still carry liability insurance.

It's really a matter of how much you want to protect. Plenty of riders ride in blue jeans, motorcycle boots, and a motorcycle jacket. I want to protect my legs and butt, so I wear riding pants. They don't. It's really up to you and your level of comfort, and what you're willing to risk in a fall.

Quote:
The other sort of "ankle protection", as Tom's picture shows, the thought of "dropping your bike" on your leg is not a hyperextension.
True. But I'll take my bike dropped on my Alpinestars Scouts over my bike dropped on my hiking boots any day of the week.

Quote:
To extrapolate that to motorcycling - I was reading reviews on some of the footwear recommended, and hearing complaints about it being difficult to shift and brake with some of these boots that seem to aim to immobilize the ankle
Absolutely true. Well, I've never had trouble braking, but shifting with size 13 boots can be more effort. But it's never stopped me from taking a ride, and I don't think about it. It's more difficult, but it's not hard.

Search youtube for "motorcycle break ankle". There are plenty of examples at low speed and at speed. Most of them are people goofing off, but here's one that's far more like my riding style:


"6 permanent screws and a plate holding my ankle together". I daresay if that guy had my boots on, that would not have been required, and his ankle might have been undamaged.

Again, it's really up to you. Everyone here is projecting their own level of desired safety on you, but it might be more than you want. Some of my best friends foolishly ride in jeans. ;-)
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post #30 of 42 Old 04-01-2013, 12:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spec View Post
Look you have experienced riders advising you (complete with graphic pictures and descriptions of injuries) to buy motorcycle specific boots, high top stiff and protective. Motorcycles are not bicycles. You'll learn how to shift and brake by moving you feet.

You can ride in flip flops a speedo and a beenie helmet your choice. Done with this thread.
You've glossed right past the point again in a sweeping generalization of "experienced riders".
What kind of riders?
What kind of experience?
What kind of potential damage?
What kinds of protection are available?
Does it even make sense that other products exist, if there's only one concept of "good"?

Like almost any piece of equipment/gear, in almost ANY hobby/sport/activity, I feel pretty confident that there's not just one "best" type of equipment that results in the "best" protection/performance/enjoyment/etc.
The world doesn't work that way, which is why I'm responding to try to steer the conversation away from the sweeping generalization realm into one that includes some details that might create some understanding of what types of protection are valuable in what circumstances - in what types of riding - and what types of trade-offs might exist.

Am I going to encounter debris that might strike me in the shin as I'm riding around my 30mph closed-street suburban neighborhood or risk stepping into a hole or onto a mossy rock?
I think some differentiation is not only warranted, but valuable.
I NEVER make decisions based on assumptions and sweeping generalizations.

My comfort level comes from understanding - not from regretfully with an empty wallet and unpredicted injury muttering "But so and so on an internet forum who claimed to be all-knowing said so..."

The world doesn't work that way.
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