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Tubeliss conversion part 1

17K views 28 replies 12 participants last post by  Damocles 
#1 · (Edited)
The bead on my rear tire is extremely hard to break loose for some reason. I had real concerns about being able to do a field flat repair.

I saw Cyb's tubeliss conversion page on Smugmug. It looked reasonable so thought I would give it a go!

http://cyb.smugmug.com/gallery/7250813_ZxQA5#!i=465979444&k=BjwM3St

Just to make my case... I've tried various methods to break the bead. Tires irons eventually work but it takes many trips around the wheel and lots of force not something I want to rely on.

Hah my tire laughs at my puny C-Clamp


Even a bench vise doesn't break the bead without yanking the tire back and forth:



Ah finally after much wrestling and windex and I still have to flip the wheel and break the other side!



I know what you're thinking the rim must be gunked up or something tires shouldn't be that difficult well here's what the rim looked like:



So yea I don't know what the deal is but anyway. I used a wire wheel on a drill motor and cleaned up the rim. Spent a good amount of time cleaning around the spoke nipples. They had some rust/corrosion not too bad but I believe in good prep = good results.



I couldn't find a syringe like Cyb used for the Seal All so used a nozzle I had laying around



This is after 2 applications of the Seal All. The small bubbles formed during drying. I was carefull not to cause any bubbles when applying.



I had to order the valve stem from Napa it was the only one I could find that fit the rim without enlarging the hole, just in case this didn't work out and I had to put a tube back in. I used the household variety of Goop. Here's what it looked like after application:



on to part 2...
 
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#2 · (Edited)
Great job on the clean-up, wish I had done that to mine!

Could it just be the certain type of tire that is tough to break the bead? Is the tire really old or has been exposed to extra high heat/extra low cold? Did you have it over-inflated for a long period of time??? None of these things sound like the issue to me but I am reaching for straws... when I took the stem out of my tubes, the bead basically just fell off the wheel with little force at all. spooning new tires on, well that's another story. >.<
 
#3 ·
Could it just be the certain type of tire that is tough to break the bead?
I've also had decent luck with the Metzler's the PO had on there, and the k761s I've had on. I read a trick for breaking beads somewhere that I've used: jam the flat of the iron straight in there, put a crescent wrench on the other end of the iron, turn the wrench/twist the iron 90°.
 
#7 ·
Considered trying a tubeless conversion after having to cut the bead on an Avon Gripster that had been to Alaska. The thing that made me hesitate is the supposed difficulty of getting the tire to inflate without a lot of pressure behind it; something you can't necessarily get with a portable pump. Would be very interested to know how this works out.
 
#10 · (Edited)
It didn't take much pressure to seat the bead on mine. I'm thinking that a CO2 inflator would work. You would only need it if the bead was broken. I've had a couple of rears flats but the bead didn't break even after riding quite aways.
 
#8 ·
Take NOTICE of the RAISED RIB next to the drop center of the spokes!

The rim is built like a TUBELESS rim. A good tubeless CAPABLE tire like a GRIPSTER or ANAKEE, snaps ON.

A tube-type rim on a dirt bike doesn't have the raised rib. (Look at the KLR FRONT RIM) And a tube type tire is a looser fit. (Doesn't NEED to SEAL, the tube holds the air.)
pdwestman
 
#9 ·
Ah-ha so it is a tubeliss rim. I know it looked different than the front.

So I won't die, good to know!

Any tips on an effective way to break the bead without driving a car over it?
I've done that actually. Set the wheel on some 2x4s and had my wife ease up on it. Kinda spooky!
 
#11 ·
Inflating tubeless ATV tires with a low-capacity compressor, a BAND of some sort (e.g., a rope, twisted taught with a stick) around the tread forces the bead out to the rim. Don't know if this geometry would work with a motorcycle tire or not; kinda narrow to support a band . . .

But, as mentioned above; if the bead isn't broken, no problem (e.g., typical puncture flat).
 
#13 ·
Another field-expedient technique (if you have a roll with you like all good KLR riders should) is to use the tape to seal the gap between the tire and wheel. It will hold the air in enough to get the tire to contact the wheel. When you're done, you can just peel it off. As noted by all, pretty unlikely you'd have a tubeless tire broken loose from the wheel due to a puncture flat.

Of, if you're gutsy, a can of starter fluid and a lighter is more entertaining.......
 
#12 ·
Hey Spec -- thanks for linking me to this. How did your tubeless conversation hold up long term?
 
#14 · (Edited)
I've got about 4K miles on it, about time for a new tire.

The rim sealing is good no leaks. I've had trouble with the tire plugs:

http://www.klrforum.com/showthread.php?t=25146

I decided just to ride the tire plugged (instead of taking it off and doing an internal patch) just to see how it would last. I've had to re-plug the tire about 3 times now. The first one was holding air fine but was sticking out a bit after riding on it for a few hundred miles. I fooled with it and cut some off. Yea it started leaking.

Next one started leaking after about 1000 miles not sure why. By now the hole is bigger so I used 2 strings last time. So moral of the story is (for me anyway) don't rely on the strings for a permanent repair. They sure are handy though to fix a flat.
 
#18 ·
I would totally do this if I wasn't lazy. :ashamed0005: ;)
 
#26 ·
shil,
Did you NOT Read the "Do Not" Warnings, directly under the picture of the shiny chrome wheel on the R.H. side of the first page?
As in,
See Figure 1. Tubeless laced (spoked) rims are identified
by the word "TUBELESS" etched into the outside of the
rim and are manufactured to the MTM profile. A typical
identifier would be "TUBELESS 16M/CxMTM3.00 T DOT".
• DO NOT install a rim seal and tubeless tire on a laced
rim that is not identified as such.
• DO NOT install a tube in a tire mounted on a tubeless
laced rim.
• DO NOT install a tire on a tubeless laced rim without
the rim strip and rim seal installed.
Failure to follow these guidelines could result in sudden
and unexpected loss of air pressure, resulting in loss of
control, serious injury, or death.
Also, the rim seal is "NOT SOLD SEPARATELY."

Yet, even given the risks, one might wonder . . . would the Harley rim seal actually WORK on a KLR rim? :)
 
#23 ·
The most effective part of seating a tubeless tire is to remove the valve core. The rate of air flow is many times greater without the core so can often overcome the leakage enough to seal the bead. Bouncing the tire and using a constriction such as rope and cross twisted tool (windlass) or ratchet type cargo strap are useful. I like to use two ropes, one on each side of the crown of the tire rather than trying to keep one rope on center. Tie the ropes together and then use the tool at 180 degrees to the knots as this helps to keep the ropes from coming off.

I use one of the big plastic bead breaker wedges (reminds me to order another as seem to have lost one) and dead blow hammer to break beads. Works on some really, super tough ones such as some of the big sport tourer tires. Another trick is to use the side stand foot of another bike to break the bead. A good lube is very helpful as one sometimes has to work things around. Tip an 800 pound sport tourer up onto the side stand an that makes for some serious pressure. ;)

In case someone is new to tires, and apologies to the rest, make certain that you use tools which you carry for the purpose and try doing a bead break with that stuff while at home. I've rescued many riders who were stuck in the back of beyond because they didn't have the means...

Playing with a tubeless conversion in another group and it's looking very positive.

HIH,

Norm
 
#28 ·
The most effective part of seating a tubeless tire is to remove the valve core. The rate of air flow is many times greater without the core so can often overcome the leakage enough to seal the bead. Bouncing the tire and using a constriction such as rope and cross twisted tool (windlass) or ratchet type cargo strap are useful. I like to use two ropes, one on each side of the crown of the tire rather than trying to keep one rope on center. Tie the ropes together and then use the tool at 180 degrees to the knots as this helps to keep the ropes from coming off...


Norm

My tire(s) seated very easily. Sprayed some Windex on the tire, aired it up and it popped on the bead at about 30 psi. Didin't take out the valve core or lasso the wheel!
 
#24 ·
Valve core is clever. Last December I had the hardest time getting a tire off. I was literally pinching the walls together with c clamps. They get mighty sticky sometimes.
 
#25 ·
Of course I didn't have a goldwing handy...
 
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