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post #11 of 64 Old 02-16-2019, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by PaddyD View Post
Currently, I have Motul Ester 10W40 in my KLR and have a Blackstone kit waiting for when I drain it. It needs a few hundred more miles yet though. When I get the sample tested I'll try to post up the results to see if it's actually worth $40 gallon.
Just generally, can anyone QUANTIFY in OPERATIONAL TERMS (e.g., comparable miles to major overhaul, hours between malfunctions) the DIFFERENCE between using the WORLD'S BEST MOTORCYCLE OIL and the cheapest, Kawasaki-recommended API Service Code and ambient temperature viscosity oil, in a KLR650?

And . . . has anyone ever suffered the heartbreak of maintenance disaster caused by friction-modified, energy-conserving motor oil (again, within the recommended API service codes and viscosity), with a KLR?

A controversial premise; I doubt the "quality" of lubricating oil (within manufacturer recommendations) is critical on KLR650 engines; don't think it makes much difference, as long as no oil starvation occurs. Granted, I may be thoroughly in error, harboring this notion, and everyone using non-pedigreed oil commits engine abuse with every crankshaft revolution.

Now, PaddyD, as to Motul! True confession, I use Motul ONLY in my KTMs. Why? Because, KTM essentially TELLS me to; has a Motul sticker on the engine case cover! Why, then, can I be so irreverent regarding oil for KLR650 consumption? The KTMs engines, I believe, are built to exceedingly fine clearances and tolerances (my big 'un has three (3) oil pumps, I'm told). With love and respect for KLRs, I doubt they are designed and manufactured to the same high-performance racing specifications of the KTM mills.

Further, I may be buying a little insurance, at least mentally, with the KTMs. KLR650 engine blows; no biggie. KTM engine blows, TAKE OUT A SECOND MORTGAGE!

Now, Motul (at $ 40/gallon) for a KLR650? I'd like to see the QUANTIFIABLE, OPERATIONALLY INTELLIGIBLE maintenance consequence DIFFERENCE between Motul and WalMart's "cheaper spread" before feeding it to mine; YMMV!

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post #12 of 64 Old 02-17-2019, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
Just generally, can anyone QUANTIFY in OPERATIONAL TERMS (e.g., comparable miles to major overhaul, hours between malfunctions) the DIFFERENCE between using the WORLD'S BEST MOTORCYCLE OIL and the cheapest, Kawasaki-recommended API Service Code and ambient temperature viscosity oil, in a KLR650?

No. No one person has more than two KLRs. I don't think most reasonable people would claim any difference.

And . . . has anyone ever suffered the heartbreak of maintenance disaster caused by friction-modified, energy-conserving motor oil (again, within the recommended API service codes and viscosity), with a KLR?

Doubt it. KLR hs an overly robust clutch for the pitiful horsepower it produces.

A controversial premise; I doubt the "quality" of lubricating oil (within manufacturer recommendations) is critical on KLR650 engines; don't think it makes much difference, as long as no oil starvation occurs. Granted, I may be thoroughly in error, harboring this notion, and everyone using non-pedigreed oil commits engine abuse with every crankshaft revolution.

That's by no means a controversial premise. One would have to be unreasonable to argue otherwise.

Now, PaddyD, as to Motul! True confession, I use Motul ONLY in my KTMs. Why? Because, KTM essentially TELLS me to; has a Motul sticker on the engine case cover! Why, then, can I be so irreverent regarding oil for KLR650 consumption? The KTMs engines, I believe, are built to exceedingly fine clearances and tolerances (my big 'un has three (3) oil pumps, I'm told). With love and respect for KLRs, I doubt they are designed and manufactured to the same high-performance racing specifications of the KTM mills.

Further, I may be buying a little insurance, at least mentally, with the KTMs. KLR650 engine blows; no biggie. KTM engine blows, TAKE OUT A SECOND MORTGAGE!

Now, Motul (at $ 40/gallon) for a KLR650? I'd like to see the QUANTIFIABLE, OPERATIONALLY INTELLIGIBLE maintenance consequence DIFFERENCE between Motul and WalMart's "cheaper spread" before feeding it to mine; YMMV!

Wish in one hand, spit in the other, seems to me.

dot dot dot
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post #13 of 64 Old 02-20-2019, 06:33 PM
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Please keep in mind the Shell Rotella is made for truck diesels.....not motorcycles. Because it is JASO MA it will work in wet clutches, but it is not designed for the motor. Spend the extra money and get a good motorcycle oil.
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post #14 of 64 Old 02-20-2019, 06:56 PM
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Please explain what is in a "good motorcycle oil" that is not covered under the JASO MA. JASO MA means more than 'wet clutch compatible'.

Bear in mind, though, that irrespective of all the hype, bullshit, and advertising talk that appears on the outside of the bottle, in ads, or on websites, the only thing you really know about the oil is what is inside that little emblem on the back that list the spec the oil conforms to. Other words, like "4-Stroke", "Racing 4T", "V-Twin 4T" don't mean diddly. In fact, "V-Twin 4T" probably means it's ordinary engine oil.

The spec is the spec.

Oil. It's a marvel, it's a mystery.
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Last edited by Tom Schmitz; 02-20-2019 at 06:58 PM.
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post #15 of 64 Old 02-20-2019, 07:31 PM
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You are right, oil is a marvel and a mystery. JASA MA is specified for motorcycles using the same oil lubricating the engine and wet clutch.

I'm not a chemist, but here is a good quote from Motorcyclist magazine.

"Itís possible to find automotive oil with the appropriate API service type and viscosity range in a non-energy-conserving formulation, but that doesnít necessarily mean itís appropriate for use in your bike. There are some key differences between motorcycle engines and car engines, most notably the fact that motorcycles have shared sumps. The meat grinder that is the transmission is tough on the viscosity index modifiers and calls for high-pressure and anti-wear additives that arenít part of the normal automotive-oil package. Add to that the fact that motorcycle engines make more power per liter, spin faster, and run hotter than car engines and itís pretty clear that picking motorcycle-specific oil is important."
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post #16 of 64 Old 02-20-2019, 07:35 PM
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Been there, done that, myself!
And their response was?
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post #17 of 64 Old 02-20-2019, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoz View Post
You are right, oil is a marvel and a mystery. JASA MA is specified for motorcycles using the same oil lubricating the engine and wet clutch.

I'm not a chemist, but here is a good quote from Motorcyclist magazine.

"Itís possible to find automotive oil with the appropriate API service type and viscosity range in a non-energy-conserving formulation, but that doesnít necessarily mean itís appropriate for use in your bike. There are some key differences between motorcycle engines and car engines, most notably the fact that motorcycles have shared sumps. The meat grinder that is the transmission is tough on the viscosity index modifiers and calls for high-pressure and anti-wear additives that arenít part of the normal automotive-oil package. Add to that the fact that motorcycle engines make more power per liter, spin faster, and run hotter than car engines and itís pretty clear that picking motorcycle-specific oil is important."
Exactly my point. If an oil is compliant with JASO MA then it meets all of the requirements necessary to survive in the environment described above. If it also happens to be an oil originally formulated for diesel use, or as a mouthwash or a cure for aphids on your rosebushes, so what?

JASO created the MA categories to define the minimum required characteristics of engine oils in order to meet the special needs found in motorcycles, largely the engine and transmission sharing the same lubricant and the use of a wet clutch. There's more, but those are the big two.

If a given oil meets those specs then it is suitable for use. The content of the ads, the word salad on the websites and labeling on the jug mean nothing. Only the certification tells you what, at a minimum, is in the jug.

Tom [email protected]

ďThe muzzle of the Luger looked like the mouth of the Second Street tunnel, but I didnít move. Not being bullet proof is an idea I had had to get used to.Ē -Philip Marlowe

ď'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used.Ē -Napoleon Bonaparte

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post #18 of 64 Old 02-20-2019, 07:53 PM
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By the way, I'm not a fanboy. I don't use Rotella.

Tom [email protected]

ďThe muzzle of the Luger looked like the mouth of the Second Street tunnel, but I didnít move. Not being bullet proof is an idea I had had to get used to.Ē -Philip Marlowe

ď'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used.Ē -Napoleon Bonaparte

Sting like a butterfly.
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post #19 of 64 Old 02-20-2019, 07:59 PM
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Reading and amused.

Oil is not a mystery. Engineers publish a spec and if the oil meets or exceeds that spec, it is safe to use in that specific engine. End of story.

Many many people run rotella for tens or hundreds of thousands of miles without issue. I don't but many do. It meets the spec. It's fine.

As far as designer oils that FAR exceed the spec, it is unnecessary and likely amounts to money down a drain. Unless it makes one feel better at which point it serves that purpose at the very least.

Clean oil changed on time is more important than brand any day. As long as it meets the spec.

I personally run synthetic "Castrol 4T" as it is priced well on Amazon. But would run anything else that was jaso certified without concern. Heck is even run that non synthetic stuff. I must be crazy !

And everyone else should do what ever makes the voice in your own head happy. She must be kept happy and this I understand.

For me, running oils like motul in a KLR is like pouring 30 year old scotch into a beer can. But hey who am I to judge. Your money, your bike.

KLR puts out 38 HP out of 650 CC's. Hardly enough to demand any premium consumables.

Now, a KTM 1290S (oh the humanity !!!), Now that girl would get the good stuff.
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post #20 of 64 Old 02-20-2019, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by sshort21 View Post
Quote:
Been there, done that, myself!
And their response was?
"Been there, done that," referred to e-mailing a specific question to an oil refiner.

Don't remember the exact question or its answer, but . . . I do remember I received a credible response from an oil company representative. I think I asked Shell why some Rotella oils were JASO-MA, and some were not. I THINK the answer was, the non-JASO-MA oils simply had not been tested to those standards (although I think the inference was the lubricants would meet or exceed them).

Just my own perception: I think the Kawasaki recommendations in my 2007 Owner's Manual (API Service Codes/ambient temperature-related viscosities) fully adequate for KLR650s. Further, ain't never seen nothing in KLR literature (that I recall) cautioning against, "friction-modifying," or "energy-conserving" oils, in the KLR650 context.

Last edited by Damocles; 02-20-2019 at 08:58 PM.
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