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22K views 63 replies 15 participants last post by  KBear 
#1 ·
Since spring is about a month or so away I have been thinking more about the KLR.
Today at WalMart I was looking at the Rotella oils. The standard dino T4 15W40 and the full syn T6 5W40 are JASO MA certified. Does anyone know why the Semi Syn is not?
Also, for the more experienced than I , would the 5W40 be OK in warmer weather or do I need a min of 10W40?.. I'm pretty sure the 5 would be OK, but soliciting opinions anyway.
I'm confused why the semi syn is not motorcycle certified when the other two are though.
 
#2 ·
A modest proposal: E-mail Shell with your question; I'm certain you'll receive an answer!

Been there, done that, myself!

---------------------------------------------

Regardless, to the best of my knowledge and belief, you'll have an oil problem ONLY from the lack thereof! Factory recommendations/suggestions remain BROAD; basically: If it flows from a bottle or a can, fear not!

:)
 
#5 ·
I use Rotella T4 15W40 and buy it by the gallon (or sometimes the 5 quart jug) because it's good and "cheap" oil. I change my oil probably twice as often as most other locations due to air quality issues...and that's my dealer's standard recommendation. I can get the T4 at around $3 a quart. Having said that, I'm definitely glad to hear any issues anyone has with this oil.

*snip*
Also, for the more experienced than I , would the 5W40 be OK in warmer weather or do I need a min of 10W40?.. I'm pretty sure the 5 would be OK, but soliciting opinions anyway.
*snip*
The 5W and the 10W are the cold weather (W=Winter) viscosities, so I don't see what reason there would be to use a lower-than-spec (10W) viscosity. A lower "W" number would generally be called for in a colder, not warmer, environment. However, the manuals don't provide any specs of below 10W in the range tables...only 10W, up to 20W.
 
#6 ·
Still waiting to hear back from Shell as to why the T4 and T6 are JASO certified yet T5 is not. I'll probably just use the T4 as I can afford to change it almost anytime the mood strikes me. Can't believe an oil that good is priced so cheaply.
 
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#7 ·
I actually question how 'good it is' (Rotella T4 15W40) or isn't for use in a unit construction motorcycle engine/transmission.

Because if I'm not mistaken the BSL Universal Averages of ppm per 2000 miles average travel are adversely affected by the popularity of its use.
Example #1,
https://www.klrforum.com/467801-post57.html

Verses the use of what I feel are Higher Quality Motorcycle Oils,
Example #2,
https://www.klrforum.com/438425-post48.html
Notice the 3000 & 5000 mileages.

Example #3,
https://www.klrforum.com/437105-post44.html
Direct comparison 2000 to 2000 mileages.


But yea I recon that it is "good enough engineering", just like the KLR.
 
#10 ·
Currently, I have Motul Ester 10W40 in my KLR and have a Blackstone kit waiting for when I drain it. It needs a few hundred more miles yet though. When I get the sample tested I'll try to post up the results to see if it's actually worth $40 gallon.
 
#11 ·
Just generally, can anyone QUANTIFY in OPERATIONAL TERMS (e.g., comparable miles to major overhaul, hours between malfunctions) the DIFFERENCE between using the WORLD'S BEST MOTORCYCLE OIL and the cheapest, Kawasaki-recommended API Service Code and ambient temperature viscosity oil, in a KLR650?

And . . . has anyone ever suffered the heartbreak of maintenance disaster caused by friction-modified, energy-conserving motor oil (again, within the recommended API service codes and viscosity), with a KLR?

A controversial premise; I doubt the "quality" of lubricating oil (within manufacturer recommendations) is critical on KLR650 engines; don't think it makes much difference, as long as no oil starvation occurs. Granted, I may be thoroughly in error, harboring this notion, and everyone using non-pedigreed oil commits engine abuse with every crankshaft revolution.

Now, PaddyD, as to Motul! True confession, I use Motul ONLY in my KTMs. Why? Because, KTM essentially TELLS me to; has a Motul sticker on the engine case cover! Why, then, can I be so irreverent regarding oil for KLR650 consumption? The KTMs engines, I believe, are built to exceedingly fine clearances and tolerances (my big 'un has three (3) oil pumps, I'm told). With love and respect for KLRs, I doubt they are designed and manufactured to the same high-performance racing specifications of the KTM mills.

Further, I may be buying a little insurance, at least mentally, with the KTMs. KLR650 engine blows; no biggie. KTM engine blows, TAKE OUT A SECOND MORTGAGE!

Now, Motul (at $ 40/gallon) for a KLR650? I'd like to see the QUANTIFIABLE, OPERATIONALLY INTELLIGIBLE maintenance consequence DIFFERENCE between Motul and WalMart's "cheaper spread" before feeding it to mine; YMMV! :)

:)
 
#14 · (Edited)
Please explain what is in a "good motorcycle oil" that is not covered under the JASO MA. JASO MA means more than 'wet clutch compatible'.

Bear in mind, though, that irrespective of all the hype, bullshit, and advertising talk that appears on the outside of the bottle, in ads, or on websites, the only thing you really know about the oil is what is inside that little emblem on the back that list the spec the oil conforms to. Other words, like "4-Stroke", "Racing 4T", "V-Twin 4T" don't mean diddly. In fact, "V-Twin 4T" probably means it's ordinary engine oil.

The spec is the spec.

Oil. It's a marvel, it's a mystery.
 
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#21 ·
Exactly,
If the V twin designation meant anything substantial, it would differentiate between air or liquid cooled and shared trans or separate trans.. There's a VAST difference between a Kawasaki or Honda V twin and a Harley.
 
#15 ·
You are right, oil is a marvel and a mystery. JASA MA is specified for motorcycles using the same oil lubricating the engine and wet clutch.

I'm not a chemist, but here is a good quote from Motorcyclist magazine.

"It’s possible to find automotive oil with the appropriate API service type and viscosity range in a non-energy-conserving formulation, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s appropriate for use in your bike. There are some key differences between motorcycle engines and car engines, most notably the fact that motorcycles have shared sumps. The meat grinder that is the transmission is tough on the viscosity index modifiers and calls for high-pressure and anti-wear additives that aren’t part of the normal automotive-oil package. Add to that the fact that motorcycle engines make more power per liter, spin faster, and run hotter than car engines and it’s pretty clear that picking motorcycle-specific oil is important."
 
#17 ·
Exactly my point. If an oil is compliant with JASO MA then it meets all of the requirements necessary to survive in the environment described above. If it also happens to be an oil originally formulated for diesel use, or as a mouthwash or a cure for aphids on your rosebushes, so what?

JASO created the MA categories to define the minimum required characteristics of engine oils in order to meet the special needs found in motorcycles, largely the engine and transmission sharing the same lubricant and the use of a wet clutch. There's more, but those are the big two.

If a given oil meets those specs then it is suitable for use. The content of the ads, the word salad on the websites and labeling on the jug mean nothing. Only the certification tells you what, at a minimum, is in the jug.
 
#19 ·
Reading and amused.

Oil is not a mystery. Engineers publish a spec and if the oil meets or exceeds that spec, it is safe to use in that specific engine. End of story.

Many many people run rotella for tens or hundreds of thousands of miles without issue. I don't but many do. It meets the spec. It's fine.

As far as designer oils that FAR exceed the spec, it is unnecessary and likely amounts to money down a drain. Unless it makes one feel better at which point it serves that purpose at the very least.

Clean oil changed on time is more important than brand any day. As long as it meets the spec.

I personally run synthetic "Castrol 4T" as it is priced well on Amazon. But would run anything else that was jaso certified without concern. Heck is even run that non synthetic stuff. I must be crazy !

And everyone else should do what ever makes the voice in your own head happy. She must be kept happy and this I understand.

For me, running oils like motul in a KLR is like pouring 30 year old scotch into a beer can. But hey who am I to judge. Your money, your bike.

KLR puts out 38 HP out of 650 CC's. Hardly enough to demand any premium consumables.

Now, a KTM 1290S (oh the humanity !!!), Now that girl would get the good stuff.
 
#22 ·
Now, a KTM 1290S (oh the humanity !!!), Now that girl would get the good stuff.
Once, in my misspent youth, in a foreign country, I entered a club/bar/dive/etc. with some of my rifle team companions.

The maitre d'hotel seated us, and offered the company of the hostesses employed by the establishment to join us socially for cocktails.

He informed us, "They drink only champagne."

He was right, according to our bar tabs.

Similarly, my KTMs drink only Motul!

:)
 
#28 ·
The allusion to "Marvel Mystery" motor oil may be effective, generationally, MrZappo! You cannot possibly have the same knowledge of arcane trivia possessed by us, the SENILE! :)

My memories of Marvel Mystery: The concentric circle optical illusion the vendor used in its marketing; the "demonstration" where automobiles were fortified with Marvel Mystery, then run with DRAINED crankcases across the American desert in the summertime . . . surely, a Marvel Mystery! :)
 
#29 ·
FYI Damocles

The KLR650 Clymer Manual does does caution specifically against the use of energy conserving classified oils;

"When ENERGY CONSERVING is listed in this part of the the (API Service symbol) label, the oil has demonstrated energy-conserving properties in the standard tests. Do not us ENERGY CONSERVING oil in motorcycle engines".

This does not necessarily reflect or conflict with my opinion. I just thought it might be of interest to you. Like your's, my owner's manual does not mention energy conserving oil.

Cheers

Timberfoot
 
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#32 ·
I may be wrong and welcome the correction, but I've never seen any 40 wt class oils that were classified as "energy conserving" so I do not see why all the fuss about using it. From everything I've observed in the store, energy conserving oils are limited to 20 and 30 multi-weights and unless you're some kind of polar bear rider in the great north during winter no one would/should be considering those anyway.
 
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#35 · (Edited)
Would you stop it with this shit already?

This is an oil thread. Grandly throwing around real facts and data will do you no good.

Rumor, hyperbola, and innuendo rule the day here, so get with the program. Let me give you an example: "My KLR was burning oil real bad, so I swtiched frm 10W40 to 15W50 and it cured by oil burining. So just swtich ur bike to thicker oil. Here, I made a video with my handheld iphone in prtrait mode showing how my KLR runs by sweeping it all over hte engine real fast."

Carry on.
 
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#33 · (Edited)
Forgive (if you can) this walk down, Memory Lane!

Anyone (besides me) remember those late-night infomercials touting engine oil additives?

I think, "Slick 50," was one of the many.

Anyhow, one simply added a bit of these joy-juice liquids to a crankcase, and voila! Instant longer service life, improved fuel mileage, more power, less oil consumption . . . more-or-less, I suppose, the benefits claimed by the KLR650 PCV Valve Mod.

I wonder what became of these products, and . . . the ADVERTISING AGENCIES creating the ads. Lots of actors and spokespersons must have drawn unemployment benefits after this TV bombardment ended . . .

---------------------------------

Some clues, and perhaps at least partial answers to my query . . . http://www.skepdic.com/slick50.html

:)
 
#36 ·
I have little to add.

When one is considering any of the V-Twin oils, Confirm that they DON'T Have a JASO MB rating. The MB rating is for separated engines.

Using an MB rated oil would be equivalent to using the "Energy Conserving" additives from the thinner automotive oils in your Wet Clutch transmission.
 
#38 ·
It was a joke, @PaddyD, a joke.

You are stating facts in an oil thread.

Oil threads usually don't have facts and data in them.

Oh, and I said oil thread, not old thread.

Anyway, sorry, I meant it as a compliment.
 
#39 ·
Ok. I thought you must be pulling my chain , but given it is a forum and some tend to get pretty exercised over minutia, you just never know..
Also, no need for any apology. Even if you were not joking, I'm a big boy and can take criticism.

Now to the original question I had about T5 not being JASO certified. After waiting 6 days for a response for my online inquiry, I called Shell Oil today and the guy on the other end told me the only reason T5 semi syn is not certified is because Shell only wanted to pay the big $ for the two most popular oils in the Rotella line. He told me for legal purposes he couldn't tell me to use it, but stated that people had been running T4 for many years in motorcycles prior to it ever receiving JASO certification. He said in his opinion it, (T5) would be just fine, but if 30,000 miles down the road I experienced issues the co wouldn't be liable as it is not labeled as a suitable oil. He did verify that T4 and T6 are 100% certified and suitable for use in any Japanese motorcycle that requires oil within the viscosity range on the bottles and that it is not just "Diesel Engine" oil.

I also have used it in my garden tractor for years now and it has done just fine in that application too. So I have concluded that I no longer will search for the latest, greatest miracle oil for Black Betty.. This stuff is under $13 a gallon and is plenty good as long as I don't try to run it too long between changes, which I never do anyway.

In conclusion, my question has been answered.
 
#42 ·
On a Norton forum, there is a guy who is doing some ongoing testing of different oils for motorcycles. He classifies them as to what would be good in an air-cooled, water-cooled, dry clutch, wet clutch, etc., and very importantly how they handle shear.
Rotella T4 tested as one of the better motor oils that can be used for wet clutch bikes.
I have run Rotella T in a V-65 Saber and my KLR 650, I have had oil samples tested at 3000 and 5000 intervals, and the oil still met all of the minimums of the motorcycle engine standards.
Having said that, I don't thrash my bike, and I ride in a very conservative way when it comes to acceleration, and I don't usually use engine braking down shifts.
I was reading about the new Dodge Hellcat engines and how there is a recommended oil change interval. The particular writer was complaining that his oil service light was coming on early. Apparently, if you thrash the Hellcat, the computer figures your oil is taking a beating and tells you to change the oil sooner.
Run what ever oil you would like, have it tested at your oil change interval and see if you need to change your interval or adjust your driving habits.
Rotella at 5k interval works for my KLR and my riding style, and it doesn't break the bank.
I will try to post a link to the Norton page later.
 
#43 ·
Damocles, I think it is probably Boiler Plate. I believe the Clymer Manual has a few such boiler plates.

Another example is its instructions for setting the chain tension. The Clymer manual says to raise the back wheel off the ground, whereas, the owner's manual, and the sticker on the swing arm both say to leave the bike on its side stand.

Cheers

Matthew
 
#45 ·
Changed to MORE, or to LESS, zinc? Just wonderin'.

Men say, zinc is a friction-altering substance. Some also say, dry-clutch motorcyclists should run, screaming, from the room should any "friction-altering" substances appear in their lubricants. I respectfully decline the admonition regarding the robust KLR650 clutch, YMMV! (I embrace the manufacturer's API Service Code and ambient temperature-related viscosity recommendations.)
 
#46 ·
I would assume if they are formulated to meet the latest JASO spec that it would be less. Reason being to protect catalytic converters on the newer bikes. This is the reason for the titanium now found in many oils as it is to help mitigate the reduction of the ZDDP. They're beginning reduce zinc in pretty much all oils that meet modern specs like DEXOS 1 for the emissions warranties. Redline is coming out with a new reduced formulation so they too can carry the GM DEXOS certification.

As for the Rotella.. Yesterday I was browsing the oil isle at WalMart and I noticed they now are carrying the T6 synthetic in the 15W40 grade which also meets JASO MA/MA2 specs.. Before, all they had on the shelf for T6 was 5W40 and the 15W40 was T4.
 
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#48 ·
Yrs ago, a friend of mine always took his Car to an oil change place, to have it done. I accused him of being lazy, and ask if he even knew what brand/ type oil was being used ? He just shrugged his shoulders and went on. We worked together many yrs. His car threw a code for cat going bad. He had about 55 -60k miles then. Was done under warranty. He had it replaced. Fast forwards 15-18k miles, same thing. After a 3rd time - I told him to switch shops or better yet change it himself. I told him to have syn oil put in. Problem went away. He now gave it to his daughter w/260 <> miles still no problem. Not saying the place he was going to was using bad but probably the spec wrong oil . In fact it was probably a better oil than most, especially for older cars anyway. But yes zinc in the Catlytic converter causes the honeycomb type to melt down from what I have seen in yrs past.
 
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