Tear down & investigation of failure - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
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post #1 of 7 Old Today, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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Tear down & investigation of failure

As recommended by Tom & Paul, I'm starting a thread on my latest project.

This thread is going to be geared more toward the DIY'ers and gear heads who love taking things apart.
I spent many years in automotive dealerships & shops as a parts counter person, and then as a mechanic before bailing out of the trade. Now that I'm retired, I enjoy working on things and carefully inspecting them without a time clock or service manager staring over my shoulder.


Back story to the engine-

Cruising the web a while back, I spot a thread about a KLR that had a sudden noise, bucked, and died at freeway speed during a young mans commute. And of course the Doo was the first thing that everyone suspected and pointed fingers at, but it was fairly obvious that a replacement engine was going to be the quickest and most financially sound option.
So I contacted the young man & expressed my interest in the "core" if he didn't have to turn it in.
Info exchanged, deal worked out, and I headed out for a four drive with some cash and a case of beer.



With Grand Delusions of salvaging it and taking my time to build a 719 monster, I was excited to get my hands on the 800 piece adult LEGO engine set.

Illusions come in many forms folks. He had taken it to a local shop that did a quick inspection and removed the stator cover and flywheel. Gave him an estimate that included a crankshaft (I'll explain that one later), and then boxed up the parts and gave it back to him. He quickly found a used engine, and was back on the road swapping it out himself.








Lesson #1
It soon became obvious that there was more than meets the eye to this.







Lesson #2-
There are two types of estimates in any shop.
First is the complete estimate for repairs because you want the job, and and you want a satisfied customer that didn't get any surprises. So for that, you do a complete tear down detailing every item you will need to do a full repair knowing from the start that the vehicle is worth the money to repair.
Second there is the estimate of major repairs that you add up as you go until the $$$ figure exceeds the cost of the major component, or the value of the vehicle.


Dealt with so many that had the idea that fixing their beloved $1,500 vehicle would make everything right in the world again.
Sorry folks, but putting $2,600 into your $1,500 vehicle does not get you a vehicle worth $4,100.
And that goes for "farkles" too. Adding $2,000 worth of extras to your used $3,500 bike doesn't make your bike worth $5,500. Although there are those out there that will pay it.
It also depends a lot if you're doing the work yourself, or paying a shop. Doing it yourself saves the labor cost, but remember that you might have to buy tools and supplies for that. It all adds up for a one time repair.



Moving on...

With the engine on the bench, I started to look at things carefully and think if the repair would work.
First challenge was a broken boss off the case for the balance chain guide.

And metal. Lots of metal.
Everywhere.





Coming up, Part 2


Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation."

Jeff in Napa California
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post #2 of 7 Old Today, 03:02 PM Thread Starter
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Part Two...

Then I started to turn things, and found a LOT of play in the upper balancer shaft and gear.
Pulled the snap ring off the gear and saw this.



Now that gave me an idea on where some of the metal came from.
But then I tried turning the engine over with a ratchet on the crank. Found it would rotate 2/3 the way around in each direction.
Careful inspection of timing chain as it rolled thru........... Uh oh. It was in one piece, but...



So the head came off.

SURPRISE!








NOTE-- Add full valve job to the cost of a 719.


Coming up, part three



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Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation."

Jeff in Napa California
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post #3 of 7 Old Today, 03:44 PM
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I look forward to the updates. I fully admit that I would have just tossed that in the recycle bin......in fact, I probably recommended that to the original poster. ....so typical upper balancer failure that then dropped debris into both the balancer and timing chain/sprockets resulting in the broken case and bent valves?

Cheers,
Dave
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post #4 of 7 Old Today, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
I look forward to the updates. I fully admit that I would have just tossed that in the recycle bin......in fact, I probably recommended that to the original poster. ....so typical upper balancer failure that then dropped debris into both the balancer and timing chain/sprockets resulting in the broken case and bent valves?

Cheers,
Dave

Ah, but now I have parts!
All three banjo bolts to drill out and have ready, and a oil pressure relief valve to work on/modify, and head might get some serious work.

(And a good cylinder core)

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Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation."

Jeff in Napa California
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post #5 of 7 Old Today, 06:48 PM
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So far, that's really not a lot of metal. It looks almost as if it died at idle. If they die that particular death at speed there is usually more carnage.

Axe me how I know...

I am looking forward to seeing what you can save out of this, though.

Tom [email protected]

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post #6 of 7 Old Today, 07:36 PM
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Campfire, how many threads are left in the main case from where the chain guide mounting tower broke off?

When everything is properly maintained with-in the engine, there really is never any loading on that chain guide, other than the torque on the mounting bolt. With red Loc-tite that could be lessened.

As an experiment, one could bore the threads out of the tower. Clean & prep the fractures for J-B Weld. Use lightly lubricated longer bolt to clamp the broken tower onto the case with the remaining threads. Remove lubricated bolt before J-B Weld is fully cured. Some of the J-B weld should squeeze up the hollowed tower making a few more threads.

Bolt length with guide installed would be critical for the remaining full thread engagement & the crank web clearance should be measurable.
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pdwestman
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Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 85,000+ miles & counting
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post #7 of 7 Old Today, 09:34 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
Campfire, how many threads are left in the main case from where the chain guide mounting tower broke off?

When everything is properly maintained with-in the engine, there really is never any loading on that chain guide, other than the torque on the mounting bolt. With red Loc-tite that could be lessened.

As an experiment, one could bore the threads out of the tower. Clean & prep the fractures for J-B Weld. Use lightly lubricated longer bolt to clamp the broken tower onto the case with the remaining threads. Remove lubricated bolt before J-B Weld is fully cured. Some of the J-B weld should squeeze up the hollowed tower making a few more threads.

Bolt length with guide installed would be critical for the remaining full thread engagement & the crank web clearance should be measurable.

Or...
My son has a new TIG welder, and as an experiment could play around and see if that would work.
One good thing, the cam journals look awesome on this head. So that will be a rebuild at least.

Confidence is the feeling you have before you fully understand the situation."

Jeff in Napa California
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