Was the $1,510.77 spent worth it? - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
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post #1 of 46 Old 05-11-2011, 09:54 PM Thread Starter
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Was the $1,510.77 spent worth it?

I got the call that my bike was ready to be picked up. I went down there and gave them what they said I owed. They brought the replaced parts out in a box and held up the clutch plates and asked if I could smell how they had been burnt. I couldn't but, then, maybe they were.

I went out and inspected my bike and found that a screw was missing that holds the radiator screen and plastic tank cover air guide. I told someone about it and they said the guy that worked on it would be right out. He came out several minutes later and told me he was waiting for me to bring my bike to the back, even though there was a large sign on the gate that said customers weren't allowed back there and that the person I spoke with didn't instruct me to take it back there to have one screw put in. No biggie.

He put the screw in and said that he didn't put one in because there was one missing when I brought it in (which is true), but considering I made it clear to the guy that wrote out the work order that I wanted it "to be thoroughly looked over and taken care of, as I don't mind spending the money to get every thing done right" I was surprised that he didn't just take care of it.

Anyway ... I got on my bike and -- which seems to always happen whenever any mechanic service the chain -- I discovered to my displeasure that the chain was way too tight! So, I ignored the sign and rode it to the back and the dude came out and I told him about the chain being too tight. He proceeded to tell me that I needed a new chain and sprocket and so I told him that if I rode it home (35-miles) that I'd need new crank bearing (because of too much stress). He said he'd loosen it up and then brought the bike inside and proceed to shut the garage door so I couldn't see him (which seemed odd since the sun provided a lot of light). He came out a few minutes later with the chain loosed and said, "You need a new chain and sprocket and if it fails and destroys your motor don't blame me"!

To that I stated that I brought it in for service so that I could get everything done and have peace of mind. He responded by saying that the guy that made out the work order had told him that I was at my limit with what I could pay, thus he didn't take care of the (alleged) dangerous chain and sprocket. I in turn told him that I never told him (work order guy) that, but that I said I was surprised when he called and told me what the bill was going to be. I added that I wanted *everything* to be taken care of and that now I have to worry about the chain blowing through the motor?!!!

I told him that I was "out of here" and he said take care.

And yet even after all of that crap, I ride home and while stuck in traffic see that the temp needle is well past the apex and very much on its way towards the right and that THE FAN -- WHICH COST $400! -- ISN'T KICKING ON!

So now what am I to do? If I call the place tomorrow and speak with the manager about this incompetent mechanic, I risk having the guy do some crap thing to my bike when no one is looking!

I feel that they charged me way, way too much for the few things they did for my KLR, but now I'm supposed to go back there and have to go through the hassle of taking a bus to and fro again in order for my bike to be serviced the way it should have been the first time! I lost my job (due to "outsourcing") and so money is very tight, yet I'm at the mercy of what these people decide to do to make it right, which somehow leads me to believe that their idea of making it right won't be the same as mine.

What now? Any suggestions would be most appreciated, thanks!

P.S. The chain and sprocket doesn't look that bad (to me), though there are some places in the chain that the guy said is "warped;" so maybe it really is as bad as he says, not sure. But still, why on earth would they not ask me about taking care of it so I could have my bike in great shape for the summer (instead of now having to worry about it!)?

Last edited by AlvinTostig; 05-11-2011 at 10:17 PM.
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post #2 of 46 Old 05-11-2011, 10:58 PM
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, I hate to hear about these things. What exactly was the stealership suposed to be doing to your bike? I wish you would have read up on these stealers before letting them touch your bike. I think it would help you a lot if you could make it to a tech. day where people could teach/help you work on your own bike the right way. I dont know how to get your money back from what the stealers did not do but from now on I think everyone here can keep from this happening again.
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post #3 of 46 Old 05-11-2011, 11:33 PM
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Find the local Kawasaki rep tell him what transpired with his dealer.
Ask him if he could reccomend a dealer that might be more customer friendly
Tell him how much you enjoy his product and you would like to keep buying from his company.
If you feel like it tell him you are on this blog with the rest of us air heads.
A few years ago I had the same problem with a YAMAHA out board motor and did the same thing , they gave me a new power head (100hp 4 stroke) approx 4000.00 and all I had to do is pay another dealer 500.00 to swap it out I was not asking for anything but to be treated like a valued customer doesn't ever hurt to ask but do it with tact
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post #4 of 46 Old 05-12-2011, 12:25 AM
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I can't give you advice specific to your problem beyond what was already suggested, but working myself at a job where I deal with customers all day, I'll give you this advice in dealing with them:
* Be forceful, but don't loose your cool. You want the manager, the head guy or any of the mechanics on YOUR side, which they won't be if you have a tantrum. On the other hand, if they say "that's that" and you disagree - use as much logic as possible (facts) and explain that "that" isn't enough. It's a balancing act.
* Be clear as to what you expect them to do (ie. I came in to have the fan installed. It did not work yesterday. Please look at it again and make sure that everything is as it should be for it to work properly). NEVER be passive aggressive or suggest things (I don't think your tech installed it correctly).
* Be positive. If they see that you're happy, they'll be encouraged that you're a satisfied customer, a customer for life, and they're more apt to do a little more for you.

Good luck.

2001 KLR650
"For strange effects and extraordinary combinations, we must go to life itself which is always far more daring than any effort of the imagination." - S Holmes
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post #5 of 46 Old 05-12-2011, 02:25 AM
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There is a wire that is supposed to be connected to the relay/sensor on the lower tank of the radiator.

If the wire is connected:
-remove the wire and ground it (press the end) to one of the mounting bolts. The fan should start (watch your fingers).
--if it does not start the fan can be bad.
--if the fan does not start...

If the wire is not connected:
-find the wire and ground it (press the end) to one of the mounting bolts. The fan should start (watch your fingers).
--if the fan starts, carefully connect it to the relay/sensor.
--if the fan does not start...

...contact the dealership and ask them what they are going to do. do NOT let them talk you into delivering yourself. they need to send someone to your home and pick up the motorcycle. after they agree, you should explain to them that the engine might have been damaged due to overheating in traffic.

As what has already been suggested and contact your Kawasaki West Coast Representative. Not that you would but do NOT get in this guys face since he is your link/bridge to satisfaction. They are usually very interesting persons. I have met two representatives. One was Korean the other was British.

Tim

2005 KLR 685
2015 Yamaha Super Tenere ES, 5/23/2015
2012 Yamaha Super Tenere; Purchased 7/30/2011; Sold 5/23/2015
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post #6 of 46 Old 05-12-2011, 03:29 AM
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You said you were offered the old parts.

I assume this population includes the old fan motor.

Does the old fan motor spin when you apply 12 VDC to its terminals? If so, you did not need a $ 400 replacement at all.

If you Google "KLR650 wiring diagram," you'll see the fan relay terminal is connected to the FAN SWITCH (a thermal switch that closes at a coolant temperature areound 200 degrees F., called by others a "sensor," or "relay," but to me is a thermal switch).

Now, discussion becomes complicated. The TEMPERATURE SENDER in the cylinder head controls the position of the TEMPERATURE NEEDLE on your TEMPERATURE GAUGE; NOT the fan switch (called by some the "sensor," or "relay") at the bottom right of your radiator.

An AIR POCKET in your radiator may prevent adequate coolant circulation at idle, causing the TEMPERATURE SENDER in the cylinder head to register a high temperature, while the coolant in the bottom of your radiator had not reached sufficently high temperature to close the FAN SWITCH, activating the FAN RELAY, and turning on your FAN.

The cure for an air pocket in the cooing system is BURPING; one burps the cooling system by operating the engine with the radiator cap OFF 'til the coolant temperature rises sufficiently high so that the THERMOSTAT opens, circulating the coolant. An air bubble will exit the open radiator neck at that time, the RADIATOR CAP can be reinstalled, and the COOLANT RESERVOIR filled to the proper level.

The above paragraph describes the burping procedure, eliminating air pockets that may result in a high temperature gauge reading (from the TEMPERATURE SENDER in the cyclinder head as mentioned) without sufficient coolant temperature to close the FAN SWITCH at the bottom right of your radiator (again, some refer to the thermal fan switch as a "sensor," or "relay"), activating the fan realy and in turn the fan motor.

I've tried to explain, the TEMPERATURE GAUGE and the COOLING FAN actuation circuits are SEPARATE; the FAN SWITCH doesn't know or care what your TEMPERATURE GAUGE says; the fan switch, simple thermal switch that it is, only knows whether the coolant surrounding itself is high enough for it to close, providing a GROUND to the FAN RELAY and actuating the fan . . .

Your mechanic should know these basic functions, how to configure and to test and verify your motorcycle's roadworthiness.

I think you need an ethical, knowledgeable person (professional mechanic or neo-competent gear-head) to examine your bike, and, favoring your best interests, advise you.

I suspect your cooling fan's o.k.; that any problem is the result of electrical malfunction (e.g., fan fuse, fan switch, fan relay or associated wiring), or perhaps of air pockets in the coolant.

I further suspect the mechanic seeks to rip you off on chain and sprockets; suggesting you'll trash your crank bearings as a consequence of worn chain-and-sprockets appears false and irresponsible to me.

While the Service Manuals provide service limits for many components (I'd hope you have a copy of KLR600 and KLR650 Kawasaki service manuals, or a Clymer), you're on a steeply-sloped learning curve regarding maintenance of your KLR650.

I have serious doubts regarding the competence and ethics of the mechanic and shop with whom you're dealing.

Your descriptions of your interaction with the dealership appear specific enough; I think you can name the dealership without fear of libel or defamation litigation.

Reviewing, for your fan to work, the fan motor must be sound (TomatoCity tells you how to test that; ground the lead to the FAN SWITCH and see if the fan spins; test will work withether ignition switch is ON or OFF). For the fan to cool the engine properly, the FAN SWITCH (yeah, they call it the "sensor," or "relay") must CLOSE at around 200 degrees F.; the Service Manual tells how to test this, if necessary. The FAN FUSE must have continutity (easily tested with a multimeter). And, the FAN RELAY must close its contacts, when its control terminal receives a GROUND from the FAN SWITCH (yeah, the famous little gizmo mounted in the lower right of your radiator). Finally, the coolant system must be free of air pockets (the BURPING procedure mentioned above) for the cooling system to operate properly; burping affects operation most critically at idle; at higher rpm, sufficient circulation may be possible, even with air pockets present.

My overall suggestion: Cut your losses, find competent help and advice.

Good luck!

-----------------------------

CAVEAT: The functions and procedures mentioned in this post reflect my own perceptions and opinions; corrections and clarifications welcomed!

--------------------------------

Just thought of something that might help explain the distinct separateness from the temperature gauge and the fan switch:

The TEMPERATURE GAUGE receives an electrical signal from the TEMPERATURE SENDER in the cylinder head; the signal is proportional to the CYLINDER HEAD TEMPERATURE, without regard to coolant . . . the cylinder head temperature will register, even if no coolant whatsoever is in the radiator.

The FAN SWITCH is open, no contact, unless the coolant surrounding it approaches 200 degrees F.; at that point, the switch CLOSES and reflects a low-resistance contact with chassis ground. If, for example, there is no coolant in the radiator, the temperature gauge may be well into the red zone; however, without the coolant to transfer sufficiently high temperature to the fan switch to cause the switch to close, the fan switch will remain open and the fan will not operate (despite extremely high cylinder head temperature).

THIS IS AN EXAMPLE ONLY; DO NOT operate your engine without coolant!

My point: The temperature sender and temperature gauge, when isolated, work independently of the fan switch/fan relay/fan fuse/fan motor. With proper coolant quantity and circulation, a relationship can be inferred, but--no direct relationship exists between the two circuits, when analyzed separately.

TEMPERATURE SENDER in cylinder head: Wire goes to TEMPERATURE GAUGE.

FAN SWITCH in lower right of radiator: Wire goes to FAN RELAY.

Last edited by Damocles; 05-12-2011 at 08:09 AM.
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post #7 of 46 Old 05-12-2011, 07:36 AM
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$1500....YIKES.
That's unbelievable.
Did you get a list of things they did? For $1500 I would definately be looking at the list and checking everything out.
I hate to say it but never go into a dealer (or any mechanic) and just say "fix everything that you can, money is no object". You really should have a plan when you address them. "Here is whats wrong, here is what I would like you to do, if you see anything else that needs attention, let me know". I know thats a hard thing to do if you have limited knowledge of the bike. Research, research, research before you drop the bike off.
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post #8 of 46 Old 05-12-2011, 10:18 AM
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Ouch...Stories like this make me read and learn as much as possible about the ins and outs of stuff I own. Reading manuals and instructions is boring ( I once read the entire Machinist Handbook V23)...but sometimes necessary...and sometimes read two or three times until I fully understand it (RIBZ for instance, Revised Improved Battelsight Zero).

On a plus note, I am pleased to see the great responses from members of this board; all around great help and advice. I hope to stick around and learn much about the workings of a new-to-me 06 with 4500mi...
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post #9 of 46 Old 05-12-2011, 10:27 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bug Killer View Post
, I hate to hear about these things. What exactly was the stealership suposed to be doing to your bike? I wish you would have read up on these stealers before letting them touch your bike. I think it would help you a lot if you could make it to a tech. day where people could teach/help you work on your own bike the right way. I dont know how to get your money back from what the stealers did not do but from now on I think everyone here can keep from this happening again.
Thanks for your reply!

The main thing I wanted them to do was the 12,000 mile service job the manual says to do; mainly check the valves for adjustment. (The guy told me three of them were off a bit.)

I'll admit that my philosophy of "treat others right and they'll do the same" hasn't always worked out. I once paid a guy up front to paint a 700 Nighthawk for me thinking he'd do a spot-on-job because I displayed what I thought was trust and respect towards him by not withholding the dough until he was done. But he took the money and went and painted the bike an ugly battleship gray instead of a deep charcoal gray that I had wanted.

What can I say? I'm-a still living and still a-learning.
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post #10 of 46 Old 05-12-2011, 10:36 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scout57 View Post
Find the local Kawasaki rep tell him what transpired with his dealer.
Ask him if he could reccomend a dealer that might be more customer friendly
Tell him how much you enjoy his product and you would like to keep buying from his company.
If you feel like it tell him you are on this blog with the rest of us air heads.
A few years ago I had the same problem with a YAMAHA out board motor and did the same thing , they gave me a new power head (100hp 4 stroke) approx 4000.00 and all I had to do is pay another dealer 500.00 to swap it out I was not asking for anything but to be treated like a valued customer doesn't ever hurt to ask but do it with tact
Thanks for the advice!

I am not sure where all this is going to lead, but your idea is certainly one I'll keep in mind. Around here, Reno, these bike dealerships that I've been involved with over the years, save for maybe two, have been pretty rotten. The Kaw dealership in town is dreadful (though some of his parts guys have been wonderful), which is why I've been taking my KLR to Carson City for work done. But now.....

I'm happy to hear things worked out well with you and your Yammie!
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