Steroid Mods: Yes or No? Why? - Page 4 - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
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post #31 of 90 Old 05-27-2011, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by planalp View Post
But, until my mind is possibly changed by the mod, I still think it's kind of like putting a performance chip in a Yugo.
If your only purpose in performing the 22-cent mod is to prove its worthlessness, planalp, I predict your experiment is doomed to success.

Otherwise, since you're fully satisfied with your KLR's performance as-is, stock, why perform the 22-cent mod?

You put yourself into a, "NO-WIN, NO-WIN," or, "LOSE, LOSE," situation: If the 22-cent mod proves to have any merit, you will be shown out to be in error. If the 22-cent mod has no value, as you sincerely and passionately believe, then--you're out the effort of performing the mode for NOTHING gained in performance.

------------------------

Don't want to talk about the Tee mod, eh? O.K.!

Last edited by Damocles; 05-27-2011 at 07:45 PM.
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post #32 of 90 Old 05-27-2011, 04:28 PM
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I have to say that this discussion has become interesting!
As I posted earlier in the thread, I have modded my KLR quite a bit, probably extreme depending on your point of view.

When I purchased my KLR, I was quite satisfied with it bone stock for the first 3000 miles or so.
So what changed for me?
I rode a modded KLR

Then I rode a 685 KLR
My KLR would never pull the wheel off the ground under its own power in stock trim.
With the "steriod" mods it will do so in first gear without the clutch!
I know this is not a scientific evaluation based on dyno runs, however my butt dyno says different.

No I dont do wheelies every time I hope on the bike, but being able to loft the front wheel occasionally to clear an obstacle on the trail is nice.

Btw I still avg 48 to 50 mpg.

I think for some riders the KLR in stock form will do just fine, I justed wanted a little more zip and I got it!

Ride safe
Glen
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post #33 of 90 Old 05-27-2011, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Royal Coachman View Post
I have to say that this discussion has become interesting!
Glad the examination of ideas and experiences intrigues you, Royal Coachman!

I, too, find the banter useful; helps focus my own perceptions and logic (flawed though they might be!).

Further, thanks for sharing your metamorphosis from bone stock to significantly-modified KLR; quite an adventure, it seems.

Now, back to a quotation I posted in an earlier thread; Strother Martin's line, "What we've got here is FAILURE to communicate!" This audio dialog gives appropriate inflection and emphasis, IMHO:

http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/38010440
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post #34 of 90 Old 05-27-2011, 08:48 PM
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[QUOTE=Damocles;82691]

I, too, find the banter useful; helps focus my own perceptions and logic (flawed though they might be!).

Further, thanks for sharing your metamorphosis from bone stock to significantly-modified KLR; quite an adventure, it seems.





I have A good friend that commutes on a bone stock 05 KLR with 50,000 miles on the bike. Nothing more than crash bars and luggage.
I have the impression he thinks I'm nuts for modding my KLR the way I have.

I agree that perceptions are very different and it should be that way.
I am always learning something new from people who think differently from me
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post #35 of 90 Old 05-27-2011, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by planalp View Post
Not to badmouth the .22 mod, but in what way? What difference did you notice in performance? Stopping the backfiring on decel is always noted as a benefit of the .22 mod, but my KLR never backfires. Even if it did, I wouldn't care as long as I knew it wasn't having a detrimental effect on my engine. Maybe it would have a detrimental effect: I don't know. I know backfires can possibly cause air filter fires, valve damage, etc.?

I always hear the term "better throttle response." What exactly does that mean? More low-end or mid-range torque? Less "lag" in the throttle input vs. what the engine does? Is it really that noticeable? Maybe kind of a 2-stroke vs. 4-stroke difference I might be familiar with?

Has anybody ever quantified this by, say, the old "gold standard" of performance in the 0-60 run before and after the .22 mod? It would seem it would be impossible due to rider skill with shifting, etc.

I would like to see somebody measure this, or even do it myself, but it would have to be a more proficient and skilled rider than myself that would exactly duplicate the surface, temperature, wind, timing of shifting, etc. Sometimes I wonder if it's not kind of a "placebo effect" where just because it's been done, a perceived effect is noted by the user. Any good articles along this line available anywhere?

Nothing against it; it's obviously a cheap and easy mod and I really can't see any reason NOT to do it, but am not thoroughly convinced there is a reason TO do it, either.
For what it's worth, here is some info on dyno results and high altitude testing for a JD jetting kit. Not the .22 mod, but the same idea. The owner, James, rides an 08 KLR and is happy to share information on testing and results. Really nice guy- send him an email if you truly want some answers.

http://www.klrforum.com/showthread.php?t=10171

I have been measuring my mileage since I completed the mods and get a steady 44mpg with luggage - down from 48mpg before. I am certainly into the throttle more often now that the bike responds. I am very happy that I made the changes.

PPMC #4
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post #36 of 90 Old 05-27-2011, 11:58 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
If your only purpose in performing the 22-cent mod is to prove its worthlessness, planalp, I predict your experiment is doomed to success.

Otherwise, since you're fully satisfied with your KLR's performance as-is, stock, why perform the 22-cent mod?

You put yourself into a, "NO-WIN, NO-WIN," or, "LOSE, LOSE," situation: If the 22-cent mod proves to have any merit, you will be shown out to be in error. If the 22-cent mod has no value, as you sincerely and passionately believe, then--you're out the effort of performing the mode for NOTHING gained in performance.

------------------------

Don't want to talk about the Tee mod, eh? O.K.!
Nah, I'm gonna do it and try to be subjective. If I'm wrong, it certainly won't be the first time I've been shown out to be in error and I won't have a problem admitting it. My ego's not too prominent. If I can tell the difference, I'll readily admit it. I want to see if I can tell the difference and will make every effort to be subjective. There's no reason I wouldn't come back and report that I was wrong if I am.

I quantified the mods in my first post as "performance mods" or "reliability" mods. The carb vent mod is a reliability mod. Making that mod could make the difference between being stranded somewhere and dealing with it at a bad time: it's the same as the Ralph Nader switches on the clutch and sidestand. But, then again, while I'm always wanting "proof" that something works, I don't have any firsthand accounts of a pinched or blocked or water-filled carb vent tube putting a KLR out of action so I guess my theory doesn't work there.

But, I think there's a difference between mods you do to boost performance and ones you do to try to make sure the bike keeps running at all when you want or need it to instead of trying to fix these things after they're already broken; say a malfunctioning sidestand switch out in the middle of nowhere.



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post #37 of 90 Old 05-28-2011, 12:05 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLR-zin View Post
For what it's worth, here is some info on dyno results and high altitude testing for a JD jetting kit. Not the .22 mod, but the same idea. The owner, James, rides an 08 KLR and is happy to share information on testing and results. Really nice guy- send him an email if you truly want some answers.

http://www.klrforum.com/showthread.php?t=10171

I have been measuring my mileage since I completed the mods and get a steady 44mpg with luggage - down from 48mpg before. I am certainly into the throttle more often now that the bike responds. I am very happy that I made the changes.
I liked the Dyno stuff. Thanks. Man, I wish I had a setup where I could play around like that. Some guys just have it made!



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post #38 of 90 Old 05-28-2011, 12:23 AM
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planalp, do you perhaps mean, "objective," rather than "subjective," in your post # 36 above?

You seem already subjective, regarding the 22-cent mod, to me.

And . . . did you happen to click onto the link provided by KLR-zin? The one showing the dyno-tested horsepower increase from fuel-enriching the KLR CVK carburetor? [EDIT: I see you have; our posts almost crossed each other in the mail!]

http://www.klrforum.com/showthread.php?t=10171

Do you doubt the test results? Are the dynamometer graphs quantified sufficiently for you?

While achieving the fuel-enrichment with a store-bought kit is more elegant and more extensive than performing the 22-cent mod, the principles, and I dare say the effects, involved are the same: Fuel-enrich the OEM carburetor for enhanced performance.

If you can imagine a scenario whereby a KLR is "stranded somewhere and dealing with it at a bad time" as a consequence of the 22-cent mod, please share it.

One characteristic of the 22-cent mod (or jet kit): If you don't like it, restoration to stock condition is easy. May have to JB Weld the slide and re-drill the vacuum port, but--no major effortwould be required to return to stock configuration, should such arrangement give you comfort.
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post #39 of 90 Old 05-28-2011, 12:38 AM Thread Starter
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Would note that, as this mod applies to me, I'm too old and fat to appreciate the ability to do wheelies and no longer have a need to "lift" my front tire over a log or large rock in my path. Dead possums, snakes and raccoons tend to "give" when the front tire encounters them.

I don't think I've ever gotten into the left lane to pass a vehicle on the Interstate while on my KLR, even one piloted by an 85-year-old sporting Sansabelt slacks and massive, wraparound sunglasses, much less a vehicle on a two-lane road.

Probably the reason I seem so lackadaisical about the .22 mod is that I don't see it improving my riding experience to any degree. In fact, for the way I ride, almost exclusively gravel roads, if anything "improved throttle response" would be a hindrance.

When I'm riding these roads, I'm usually over-geared, treating the throttle with kid gloves to keep the drive inputs to the rear wheel at a minimum: just enough to keep me moving. On some roads I can get up to 70, but most of the time it's 40-50, keeping loose, concentrating on the horizon and trying to ignore the feeling in my feet, hands, brain and butt that I'm going to go down at any minute. The KLR has never taken me down on a gravel road, even fresh, loose, 6" deep gravel beds. When I'm in this mode of riding, the last thing I want is a "snappier" throttle. The sedate, stock KLR throttle suits me just fine and probably keeps me out of a lot of trouble.

So, while I still believe the performance enhancement of the .22 mod is maybe minimal at best, it's just something I don't need or want even if it works. It just seems on all the forums that the .22 Mod is touted as a "must-do" mod for everybody and that your machine is somehow lacking if you haven't done it; something to brag about around the campfire or in your signature line, if you will.

When I think about it, it seems like all my farkles are "anti-performance," adding nothing but weight and drag for the sake of comfort.



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post #40 of 90 Old 05-28-2011, 12:49 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
planalp, do you perhaps mean, "objective," rather than "subjective," in your post # 36 above?

You seem already subjective, regarding the 22-cent mod, to me.

And . . . did you happen to click onto the link provided by KLR-zin? The one showing the dyno-tested horsepower increase from fuel-enriching the KLR CVK carburetor? [EDIT: I see you have; our posts almost crossed each other in the mail!]

http://www.klrforum.com/showthread.php?t=10171

Do you doubt the test results? Are the dynamometer graphs quantified sufficiently for you?

While achieving the fuel-enrichment with a store-bought kit is more elegant and more extensive than performing the 22-cent mod, the principles, and I dare say the effects, involved are the same: Fuel-enrich the OEM carburetor for enhanced performance.

If you can imagine a scenario whereby a KLR is "stranded somewhere and dealing with it at a bad time" as a consequence of the 22-cent mod, please share it.

One characteristic of the 22-cent mod (or jet kit): If you don't like it, restoration to stock condition is easy. May have to JB Weld the slide and re-drill the vacuum port, but--no major effortwould be required to return to stock configuration, should such arrangement give you comfort.
Yeah, you're right. And, believe it or not, I have a BA in English. "Objective" is the correct term.

No, I can't imagine a scenario where a bike would be stranded by the .22 mod. I was talking about my thoughts on the carb vent tube and didn't mean to imply that I thought the .22 Mod would ever leave me stranded. Two separate mods there.

Yeah, I saw and appreciated the Dyno link. Now, if I could just see a graph with results from the .22 mod only, I might be convinced. Such a thing doesn't seem to exist, though.



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