High RPM with replacement sleeve? - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
KLR & Other Motorcycle Related Discussion Grab a seat and discuss whatever you like about the KLR or other related topics. Within reason.

 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 5 Old 03-14-2014, 02:39 PM Thread Starter
2nd Gear
 
Grinnin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 368
Garage
Question High RPM with replacement sleeve?

How is durability at high rpm with a sleeve from Schnitz?

Lore is that running the stock sleeve at 5000+ rpm causes ovalizing and oil use. I have a 705 piston with, of course, the thicker sleeve.

I have used this only with 16/43 gearing. I have liked the gearing although it is not for slow stuff. The 705 will putt along on the level at 1000 but requires slipping and throttle for any power. I can't say that I've needed to go 77 mph, but that's what it's supposed to do at 5000 rpm.

For this year I have put on a 15t. At 5,000 rpm that's supposed to be down to 72 mph.

I'm thinking of NOT using the 15t and just changing to 14t. That should make slow stuff much more managable and that is a priority for this year. It'll loose so much on the highway though.

If I knew that spinning the engine for hours at 5500 would not lead to long-term problems I'd go ahead.

So . . .What's the lore about higher rpm on a thicker sleeve? I know I could just give it a try, but it's still icy out, I've painted some parts, and I thought I'd ask.

http://www.gearingcommander.com/

14/43
1000 rpm in 1st = 4.7 mph
1500 rpm in 1st = 7.1 mph
.
5000 rpm in 5th = 67.8 mph

Stock 15/43
1000 rpm in 1st = 5.1 mph
1500 rpm in 1st = 7.6 mph
.
5000 rpm in 5th = 72.7 mph

16/43
1000 rpm in 1st = 5.4 mph
1500 rpm in 1st = 8.1 mph
.
5000 rpm in 5th = 77.5 mph
Grinnin is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 5 Old 03-14-2014, 05:56 PM
OverDrive
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lander, Wyoming
Posts: 5,458
Grinnin,
I have Zero experience with the replacement sleeves, but are They not first built/machined to Accept the Standard Piston?

Yes, I understand that the water jackets must be 'relieved' to install.
But primarily, they just wind up being Thicker Below the Base gasket surface, once they are over-bored clear to 705cc. Is that correct or not.

If correct, then After over-bore they may be thinner in the Mid-section at 705cc than the standard sleeve was at say standard bore +1.00mm or 2nd oversize OEM.

Very good question for Schnitz or LA Sleeve to answer for us all.

Composition of the Iron used probably has more to due with resistance to wear, than the thickness.
Just my theory, for what it's worth.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 85,000+ miles & counting
pdwestman is online now  
post #3 of 5 Old 03-14-2014, 08:33 PM
5th Gear
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 4,289
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grinnin View Post
How is durability at high rpm with a sleeve from Schnitz?

Lore is that running the stock sleeve at 5000+ rpm causes ovalizing and oil use.
"Lore," IMHO, offers a slippery slope for modification guidance!

Example: During the '08-'09 excessive oil consumption epidemic, "lore" declared: Engines cylinders developed oval-shaped cross-sections, and consumed excessive oil, primarily for two reasons:

1. They did not have PCV valve mods executed, and:

2. They did not have Thermo-Bobs installed.

This "lore" became undeniable, inerrant, "tribal wisdom," even though KLR650s had over 20 model years of production without oval bores/excessive oil consumption issues, although denied PCV valve mods and Thermo-Bobs.

So, I have no relevant experience/observation of ovalized, excessive oil consumption from running a stock sleeve greater than 5000 rpm. I DO have evidence of at least one 16,000-mile stock sleeve run for considerable miles over 5,000 rpm without excessive oil consumption; the bore may be entirely egg-shaped in cross-section, but . . . what? Me worry?

Maybe "lore" has it right; I don't know. I'm incompetent to say, "Just run it! No problem!" I wouldn't want to take responsibility for a recommendation that might truncate your service life, or result in catastrophic failure. I'll dance with who brung me, a stock sleeve at high rpm, but--that's just ME!

Comparing apples and cumquats, but--my KLR250 sees 9,000 and more rpm regularly on its stock sleeve; about the same mileage as the 650, and the same performance and lack of oil consumption as always; YMMV!
Damocles is offline  
 
post #4 of 5 Old 03-15-2014, 04:42 AM Thread Starter
2nd Gear
 
Grinnin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 368
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
But primarily, they just wind up being Thicker Below the Base gasket surface, once they are over-bored clear to 705cc. Is that correct or not.

If correct, then After over-bore they may be thinner in the Mid-section at 705cc than the standard sleeve was at say standard bore +1.00mm or 2nd oversize OEM.

. . .

Composition of the Iron used probably has more to due with resistance to wear, than the thickness.
The LA sleeve when bored for 705 is either .08" thicker or 04" thicker below the case joint (depending on how you read the description). I don't see dimensions to tell the thickness above the joint.

You mentioned composition of the steel of the sleeve. That reminds me that the coating on the piston is one of the new high-tech low-friction coatings that is far different from the stock '01 piston which looked like uncoated aluminum. Could make a difference. Or not.
Grinnin is offline  
post #5 of 5 Old 03-15-2014, 05:01 AM Thread Starter
2nd Gear
 
Grinnin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Maine
Posts: 368
Garage
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
"Lore," IMHO, offers a slippery slope for modification guidance!

. . .

This "lore" became undeniable, inerrant, "tribal wisdom," even though KLR650s had over 20 model years of production without oval bores/excessive oil consumption issues, although denied PCV valve mods and Thermo-Bobs.

. . .

Comparing apples and cumquats, but--my KLR250 sees 9,000 and more rpm regularly on its stock sleeve; about the same mileage as the 650, and the same performance and lack of oil consumption as always; YMMV!
I try to label lore because I know it's not measurement. Even with measurements, such as the thermobob chart, it shows temperatures for a ride that looks contrived to show the wildest temperature swings. If someone has to work that hard to justify a modification I'll pass.

Oil use is not limited to '08 and after. My '01 was using oil, mostly at high rpm. Since a leakdown test showed no significant problem, I concluded it was related to the RPM. My stock sleeve showed taper and ovalization. Use was several 1025-mile "days" with the 15t sprocket and some with 16t.

EDIT: How much leak can be called significant? How much taper/ovalization is too much for the rings at what rpm?

"Lore" that I've heard is that high RPM can be a problem with large bores. The toy teacups in my CB750 spin far faster than my KLR and are going back in with new rings and a hone on the cylinders after only 39 years of use.

In the absense of controlled, comparative testing, we have mostly lore -- reports of what works or doesn't work for the individual bikes which are each used in wildly different ways and circumstances. You have contributed your report of longevity and it is part of the lore.

I hoped to read what people experienced with high RPM with replacement sleeves. I know that reading what people experience is not comparative testing.

Last edited by Grinnin; 03-15-2014 at 05:54 AM.
Grinnin is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My KLR stalls at high RPM topper 2008+ KLR650 Wrenching & Mod Questions 7 09-18-2014 10:36 PM
Missing at high RPM. Need help feo350 1987 to 2007 Wrenching & Mods 18 01-09-2011 03:06 PM
Help with 84 KLR600 Linkage sleeve removal? Squiggles 1987 to 2007 Wrenching & Mods 0 08-12-2008 07:19 PM
Winter Handlebar Sleeve Things? JaySoy Bike and Rider Gear 4 11-03-2006 12:26 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome