KLR650 vs XR650L Torque Curve? - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
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post #1 of 13 Old 04-21-2017, 03:35 PM Thread Starter
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KLR650 vs XR650L Torque Curve?

Can this dyno graph actually be correct?

http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/photog...tor.jpg?378220

No wonder our overweight pig does as well as it does.
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post #2 of 13 Old 04-21-2017, 03:44 PM
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What's cool is that the peak of the torque curve is just about highway speed (65 mph) on our beloved beasts.
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post #3 of 13 Old 04-21-2017, 04:48 PM Thread Starter
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The dyno graph came from this article,

2008 Honda XR650L Comparison - Motorcycle USA

The EPA lean & clean low speed fuel mixture of that particular KLR650 probably had too jerky of driveline snatch to get an accurate reading below 4000 rpm.
Kind of odd that all 3 of those engines have that little dip-spike near 3800-4100rpm.

If I were in the market for an in-expensive 650 dual sport bike and I were to read that article and see that graph, I'd be scratching my head. "The torque-filled power band will keep the inside of your helmet filled with a grin,,,,".

Stock and Standard, neither KLR or XR-L has changed much mechanically, have they.
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post #4 of 13 Old 04-22-2017, 08:27 PM
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What that graph fails to show is the most important area to have torque, which is low rpm. I have ridden my riding buddy's XR650L a lot and it will blow my KLR in to the weeds at lower speeds. Hell, my little XR400 will, too. All of Honda's XR engine are extremely torquey engines, but they run out of steam very quickly. You can make them rev to high rpms, but the bike doesn't really build any speed for it. They love to be short-shifted. Stab a XR650L while rolling along in 1st or 2nd gear and they will stand up on power alone. The KLR needs the clutch dropped to do the same.

That said, the KLR will still beat an XR650L in a flat out dag race ( in my experiences with my buddy), but I credit that to the KLR's ability to rev well... never thought I'd type those words...lol. I know most guys post about keeping revs down while cruising, but I was pleasantly surprised the first time I ripped through the gears on my KLR , going to redline in every gear. It really pulls great! Glorious sounds, too. I fully believe that graph. A KLR will eat a XRL on topend, hands down.


This reminds me of something I've thought about asking several times, but figured I'd get laughed at. lol

Back in my drag racing days we used to play with valve lash to get an engine to produce power where/ how we needed it. Loosening the lash on the exhaust valves ( effectively reducing the duration) will always make more torque across the rpm band. Sometimes the dyno would show huge imrovements. Like, 30, 40 or even 50 ft/lb worth. It depended on the cam profile and other variables, but it was a consistent way to ekk out some launching power without sacrificing too much top end, run-for-the-stripe hp. Has anyone every tried playing with valve lash on the KLR to see if they could find some more bottom end grunt?
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post #5 of 13 Old 04-22-2017, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarguy View Post
What's cool is that the peak of the torque curve is just about highway speed (65 mph) on our beloved beasts.

The downside is that engines will consume the most fuel at the same point that they create peak torque.
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post #6 of 13 Old 04-22-2017, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
Kind of odd that all 3 of those engines have that little dip-spike near 3800-4100rpm.

.
Likely operator error. Most dynos don't work well at all below 3k rpm ( no idea why). A dyno operator is SUPPOSED to roll on the throttle quickly, but smoothly, when it's time to up the revs. But you see a lot of operators just whack it to WOT and wait till redline. Considering the nature of CV crabs, I could see that creating this issue here. Simply conjecture, ofc.
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post #7 of 13 Old 04-22-2017, 09:17 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by shinyribs View Post
What that graph fails to show is the most important area to have torque, which is low rpm. I have ridden my riding buddy's XR650L a lot and it will blow my KLR in to the weeds at lower speeds. Hell, my little XR400 will, too. All of Honda's XR engine are extremely torquey engines, but they run out of steam very quickly. You can make them rev to high rpms, but the bike doesn't really build any speed for it. They love to be short-shifted. Stab a XR650L while rolling along in 1st or 2nd gear and they will stand up on power alone. The KLR needs the clutch dropped to do the same.

That said, the KLR will still beat an XR650L in a flat out dag race ( in my experiences with my buddy), but I credit that to the KLR's ability to rev well... never thought I'd type those words...lol. I know most guys post about keeping revs down while cruising, but I was pleasantly surprised the first time I ripped through the gears on my KLR , going to redline in every gear. It really pulls great! Glorious sounds, too. I fully believe that graph. A KLR will eat a XRL on topend, hands down.


This reminds me of something I've thought about asking several times, but figured I'd get laughed at. lol

Back in my drag racing days we used to play with valve lash to get an engine to produce power where/ how we needed it. Loosening the lash on the exhaust valves ( effectively reducing the duration) will always make more torque across the rpm band. Sometimes the dyno would show huge imrovements. Like, 30, 40 or even 50 ft/lb worth. It depended on the cam profile and other variables, but it was a consistent way to ekk out some launching power without sacrificing too much top end, run-for-the-stripe hp. Has anyone every tried playing with valve lash on the KLR to see if they could find some more bottom end grunt?
shinyribs,
Are you not yet familiar with, 4 one inch holes in the top of the dirty air box, 2 turns open on the low speed mixture screw, a .020" shim (or 2) under the mid-range needle and drill a 7/64th" vacuum air hole in the bottom of the KLR throttle slide? This improves the low to mid-range power and response.

Then are you not yet familiar with the "MC Mod", "Free Performance Mod", "Exhaust Cam Advancement Mod"?
This mod also enhances the power and response between 1500-6500 rpm on the GEN2 primarily! Sometimes helps and sometimes hinders a GEN1, we don't understand WHY.
This mod advances the exhaust cam ONE full tooth. Simple, Cheap & Easy! And easily reversible if your engine doesn't like it.

I've been looking forward to riding with my long time friend Keith Collins, who purchased a 2016 XR650L, last spring. He purchased a 2009 KLR650 (his 3rd KLR) from us after riding his KTM620 RXC with me and friends. (I like to compare "performance", side by side.) He used to race AMA District 37 Hare & Hound.

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post #8 of 13 Old 04-22-2017, 09:57 PM
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Hey Paul, I've heard about those things, but never did them. I do have a KLX needle kit setup from EM, but it didn't do anything for low rpm. Around 2500rpm and up saw a nice improvement, though. Before that I had shimmed the stock needle, but never drilled the slide. Notable difference between a shimmed stock needle and the KLX setup.

I haven't opened up my airbox. If the bike can run 7k-8k rpm now ( and it does), then I cant see how its restricting any power in the sub 2k rpm range. But I could be wrong. A free flowing muffler has been the #1 thing I've done to improve off idle grunt on my KLR. World of difference. For a quick and dirty test I once ran around a few miles with the air box door off. I saw no difference, so I pooped the door back on and decided against drilling any extra holes.

Also, on the MC Mod, since you are advancing the intakes...that always showed us more upper rpm hp on the dyno, not low end tq. Maybe bike motors resond differently than the engines I am used to. I have no idea. It's not an area I feel my bike needs any improvement in. I'm perfectly happy with how my bike is now ( bone stock other than KLX needle kit/muffler and XR650R forks/ XL brakes). On road power is more than enough. No complaints here.

The XR-L is very torquey compared to a KLR, unless my KLR is just sick. lol. But I think the KLR is a better bike, so don't think I'm KLR bashing!. The XR-L is stuck in no man's land IMO. Gobs of off idle tq like a true dirt bike, but no gearing to take advantage of it. It sits like a dirt bike ( read: uncomfortable), but its too heavy and geared to tall to be used like one. I'd say the XR-L is a little better offroad if you are tall and strong enough to handle it, but it's no fun on road at all. The seat is narrow and hard, the pegs are in an odd position ( behind you and cramped...almost sport bike-ish), the grunty low speed motor feels completely tapped out above 60mph and the bars are extremely low. I can't stand on a XR. JMO, ofc.

For sake of full disclosure, I have only ridden my own KLR and the only XR-L I've been on is my buddy's. I can handle my KLR offroad better than I can handle his XR. To me, the XR feels very awkward and top heavy as soon as it hits dirt, which doesn't make sense. I searched for an XR650L for a long time before finally giving up and buying my KLR. I just couldn;t find any at an affordable price. After riding both bikes extensively, I'm happy with my choice. And I bleed Honda red!
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post #9 of 13 Old 04-22-2017, 10:24 PM Thread Starter
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Double Over-Head Camshafts.
We are NOT advancing the Intake numbers in anyway! The Intake remains 100% totally stock and standard.

pdwestman
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post #10 of 13 Old 04-22-2017, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
Double Over-Head Camshafts.
We are NOT advancing the Intake numbers in anyway! The Intake remains 100% totally stock and standard.

Ah, it's the exhaust cam that gets advanced, not the intake cam. Ok. Hmm...I knew that, but got mixed up. I need to ponder on that for awhile.

Didn't I read somewhere that the exhaust timing was actually retarded on the Gen 2's for EPA reasons? So advancing it would just turn it back to normal, right? My brain gets fuzzy, so maybe I'm remembering that wrong also.

Learning disability ftw. lol
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