My 98 650C turns starter when letting clutch go - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 11-20-2017, 04:35 PM Thread Starter
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My 98 650C turns starter when letting clutch go

Hey there, Im not sure if the title describes it perfectly, but in short its like this - It starts like it suppoused to, the side stand doesnt play games as I oiled the cable, but when I switch in any gear (1st/2nd) and let slowly the clutch leaver, I hear the starter turning, pull clutch in, nothing, let go and it turns again, if i ride slowly i hear it all the time...
Took the left side cover off, all gears are on theyr places, and no broken parts to see, the big "starter clutch" wheel spins in one way freely, other way it tries to turn engine as I guess it has to do right? Im kinda stuck on that, (I try to maintain my vehicles by my self, changed timing belt with all other things in it way on my audi a6c5,2.4, and have 3 older 2t bikes) if there would be any technical problem, the starter clutch would turn the starter all the time, not when in gear and releasing the clutch, could it be any electrical fault? I hope you guys can help me out
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post #2 of 30 Old 11-20-2017, 05:16 PM
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Edgars, I just read your introduction so it is something that has started happening in the past 2 years of ownership?

Either start the engine and then dis-connect the output side of the starter solenoid battery cable, so the starter Can Not be energized (by goofy wiring) and then test gears & clutch.

Or, Dis-connect the output side of starter solenoid battery cable (with dead engine) and then push-start the engine to test gears and clutch.

Either some wires from the clutch safety switch are crossed to the small starter button Relay switch or the noise is not the starter motor, imho.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

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Last edited by pdwestman; 11-20-2017 at 05:22 PM. Reason: read introduction
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post #3 of 30 Old 11-20-2017, 05:56 PM
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If the ignition switch is turned on (but the engine not running), the transmission is in first gear, the sidestand is up, and you pull the clutch in and let it out, does anything happen with the starter?

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“Neither of the two people in the room paid any attention to the way I came in, although only one of them was dead.” -Philip Marlowe

“'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used.” -Napoleon Bonaparte


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post #4 of 30 Old 11-20-2017, 06:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Schmitz View Post
If the ignition switch is turned on (but the engine not running), the transmission is in first gear, the sidestand is up, and you pull the clutch in and let it out, does anything happen with the starter?
IMHO, a good, quick and easy test of any wiring issues, given the symptoms you describe.
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post #5 of 30 Old 11-21-2017, 11:19 AM Thread Starter
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What a great response with smart solutions, to pdwestman: the problem came out few weeks ago, the rest I described happened in thous two +- years, and it seems that its an wiring issue, somethings loose (the wiring is original, like the rest of the bike, exept tires), so I try the first step you described, push start could be a problem on icy grawel) (and the noise is the starter, as I push the start button while idling, its the same, I can recognize it very well) after that I'll try Tom Schmitz way, wich sounds very creative I must say)
But I (and you guys) will have to wait till next week, as the life is happening, and there are things to sort out on the weekend, I try to make some pics and host somewhere so you can see my ride, or there is a special topic for that?
Tnx so far, Edgars
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post #6 of 30 Old 11-21-2017, 01:30 PM
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Edgars,

What I am proposing is, electrically, the same as a running engine but without the engine being started. It would be rather unusual to have an electrical problem where the starter lock-out wiring would cause the starter engage. This test should show whether or not it is the starter being engaged. Nothing is impossible!

If it is truly the starter engaging only when it is put in gear and the clutch is released, then the neutral switch is preventing the starter from being engaged when the engine is running but the transmission is in neutral.

As you correctly pointed out, if it were the one-way clutch in the starter ring gear then the starter would be spinning at all times and not only when put into gear.

As for pictures, you need to have 15 posts before you can do that, but if yo have pictures that you want to share before then, just send them to me and I will post them for you. I can give you my e-mail address or you can give me a URL where they can be found.

We like to see pictures, especially of bikes we don't get here (we never got the "C" model in the US, though our Canadian neighbors got it).

Tom [email protected]

“Neither of the two people in the room paid any attention to the way I came in, although only one of them was dead.” -Philip Marlowe

“'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used.” -Napoleon Bonaparte


Sting like a butterfly.
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post #7 of 30 Old 11-21-2017, 02:15 PM
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Edgars and his bikes





Sorry Edgars, I know you said not to post these, but these are just too cool.




Tom [email protected]

“Neither of the two people in the room paid any attention to the way I came in, although only one of them was dead.” -Philip Marlowe

“'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used.” -Napoleon Bonaparte


Sting like a butterfly.

Last edited by Tom Schmitz; 11-21-2017 at 02:26 PM.
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post #8 of 30 Old 11-21-2017, 06:13 PM
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GENTLE READERS: Possibly irrelevant, and CERTAINLY irreverent, comments follow--if these offend you, I suggest you AVERT YOUR EYES!

I guess this post should be filed under, etymology.

The term, "SOLENOID," is now used interchangeably with, "STARTER RELAY."

Classically, they ain't the same. An electro-magnetically extended plunger is a component of an authentic starter solenoid, a starter relay (such as the KLR650's) has no such plunger; the device is merely that, a RELAY.

The plungers on the old-time righteous SOLENOIDS engaged the starter motor and the engine temporarily to start the engine.

Google "STARTER SOLENOID" and you'll see lots of pictures and descriptions.

Here's one, from this link: http://www.autoelectro.co.uk/how-it-...tarter-motors:
Quote:
A starter motor works as follows:
1.When a current is supplied to the solenoid it engages the plunger.
2.This moves the lever fork and in turn pushes the pinion on the starter motor drive shaft.
3.The movement also closes high current contacts (brushes) for the starter motor which then begins to turn.

Together with the rotation and engagement of the pinion to the engines flywheel the starting process is complete.

When the ignition switch is released and the current is no longer supplied to the starter motor the solenoid retracts. This moves the pinion away from the ring gear and the starter motor becomes inoperative.
Still want to call the starter relay a "solenoid?" Your choice, but . . . don't be surprised when you see a plunger with a TRUE starter solenoid, as on a 1936 Dodge pickup!


Last edited by Damocles; 11-21-2017 at 06:22 PM.
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post #9 of 30 Old 11-21-2017, 06:45 PM
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Damocles, If you take apart the high ampere switch in the middle of the positive battery cables on its path to the starter motor, you will find a "plunger" inside of it. It is large enough to make a pretty distinct "Click", when energized by the smaller low ampere switch which is energized by the button.

It is true that the larger, High amp switch has no external mechanical movement.

Edgars,
Is that a twin pipe Jawa single cylinder? And possibly a early '60s Yamaha TD?

pdwestman
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Still riding my 1987 KL650-A1. 84,000+ miles & counting
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post #10 of 30 Old 11-21-2017, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
Damocles, If you take apart the high ampere switch in the middle of the positive battery cables on its path to the starter motor, you will find a "plunger" inside of it. It is large enough to make a pretty distinct "Click", when energized by the smaller low ampere switch which is energized by the button.
The plunger on an authentic starter solenoid mechanically engages the starter motor with the engine. Don't think the "plunger" inside the KLR650 starter relay performs that function; rather, I expect that "plunger" within the relay merely closes electrical contacts energizing the starter motor.

But . . . I've never disassembled a KLR650 starter relay.

The genuine starter solenoids also perform a relay function; however, they earn the name, "solenoid," from the electro-magnetically controlled plunger mechanically connecting the starter motor with the engine on starting.

Regardless, English is a fluid and changing tongue. As mentioned, "solenoid" is used equivalently with, "starter relay," nowadays, even though no electro-magnetically controlled plunger from a solenoid may exist to temporarily engage physically the starter motor and engine on starting.

And . . . one might say, ALL relays are "solenoids," because electromagnetic force is involved in their operation. Yet, if the STARTER RELAY is a SOLENOID, is not the STARTER CIRCUIT RELAY also a "solenoid?" As well as the FAN RELAY? What is the distinction between the starter ("solenoid") relay and the other relays?

The solenoid-actuated plungers connecting the engines and starter motors are clearly shown in the Internet images yielded from a "starter solenoid" search.

Last edited by Damocles; 11-21-2017 at 07:15 PM.
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