Lane Filtering OKed For Utah - Page 3 - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
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post #21 of 44 Old 04-06-2019, 09:03 AM
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I did my own study about 10 years ago. The results of my study were a Ford Explorer ran me over while sitting behind about four rows of cars waiting for the red to turn on a three lane (plus turn lanes, both sides) road in Valrico, Florida. My study ended up somewhat incomplete because the Explorer driver that I wanted to interview sped off.
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post #22 of 44 Old 04-06-2019, 11:26 AM
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@Voyager, here is something from Washington state that I had in my favorites; turns out the link is still active. This paper talks about the Berkeley study. This paper was published in December of '17. Above I had mentioned that I could not find the Berkeley study in the latter cycle of AB51, which would have been late '16. Perhaps I was differently-abled when I searched, or perhaps the Washington paper was written well before its publishing date.

At any rate, it cites some other studies that you might find interesting.
https://wtsc.wa.gov/wp-content/uploa...ng_Dec2017.pdf
Thanks, some interesting stuff here. However, my initial perusal does not find much support for the initial claim that was made which said “There are many studies proving this to be highly effective for Motorcycle safety.”

These studies suggest that lane splitting/sharing is highly effective in reducing travel times for motorcyclists, but does nothing to help overall road congestion and it appears to increase the risk to the motorcyclist, rather than reduce it. I believe the one study that actually provided a numerical result said the risk was 4 times HIGHER for lane splitting/sharing. This seems counter to the original claim I quoted above.

And this has been my experience. I have probably close to 7000 miles of riding in Europe and the UK (England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Switzerland and Italy). I lane split there as the locals do. Thankfully, I have had no incidents while riding there nor have I seen a single motorcycle accident, but the few close calls I have seen almost all involved riders who were land splitting. Generally, but cars that just did not see the motorcycle so close to their car in a blind spot.

I think lane splitting is great for shortening travel time, but I believe it comes with more risk rather than less. I think the option that any call filtering is better. This is what the scooters do in Taiwan and a few other Asian countries, but this is generally done only at stop lights when the cars are stopped and thus can’t change lanes into your path. And they have scooter boxes at each stop light so the scooters than filter to the front and be in the lead when the light changes. Looks chaotic at first, but seems to work very well and safely.
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post #23 of 44 Old 04-06-2019, 04:15 PM
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The risk of lane sharing is all in how it is done. I have been doing it in metropolitan Los Angeles and Orange counties for 45 years. I've never been killed, not even once, but I have a fairly complex set of rules and procedures.

In short, I won't split at more than 40mph nor more than 10mph faster than the flow of traffic. I won't split lanes unless I am in a controlled lane or am filtering. "In a controlled lane" means, for the most part, being in an HOV lane where there is not supposed to be any leaving or entering the lane. I will not split at the sections where entering and exiting the lane are permitted; that's where the law-abiding drivers are making their lane changes. Filtering means, as you say, moving forward amongst stopped traffic.

All the while, I constantly monitor drivers' head movements, traffic in lanes one over from the two I'm splitting, front wheel orientation on stopped vehicles, passenger activity, etc. There's also an element of how I feel and what the jungle vibes are. There are times when I; not up for it and/or when the vibe on the road is wrong; maybe there are too many Audis, Volvos, and Prius about. It is a very busy process.

I constantly see other riders splitting at speeds near the speed limit and at speed differentials of 50mph. I see them weaving in and out of traffic between the HOV, number 1, and number 2 lanes. If anything goes wrong they don't have a ****ing chance in hell. And that is what is missing from the studies. There is no data collected on how the lane sharing/splitting was done and associating that with crash data. To put it bluntly, was the activity done in a safe, prudent, and sane manner? I would wager that the majority of lane splitting crashes are the result of inexperienced riders, unsafe speed/speed differential, erratic maneuvering, or everything.
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post #24 of 44 Old 04-06-2019, 04:40 PM
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Post #9, first sentence.

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post #25 of 44 Old 04-06-2019, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Schmitz View Post
The risk of lane sharing is all in how it is done. I have been doing it in metropolitan Los Angeles and Orange counties for 45 years. I've never been killed, not even once, but I have a fairly complex set of rules and procedures.

In short, I won't split at more than 40mph nor more than 10mph faster than the flow of traffic. I won't split lanes unless I am in a controlled lane or am filtering. "In a controlled lane" means, for the most part, being in an HOV lane where there is not supposed to be any leaving or entering the lane. I will not split at the sections where entering and exiting the lane are permitted; that's where the law-abiding drivers are making their lane changes. Filtering means, as you say, moving forward amongst stopped traffic.

All the while, I constantly monitor drivers' head movements, traffic in lanes one over from the two I'm splitting, front wheel orientation on stopped vehicles, passenger activity, etc. There's also an element of how I feel and what the jungle vibes are. There are times when I; not up for it and/or when the vibe on the road is wrong; maybe there are too many Audis, Volvos, and Prius about. It is a very busy process.

I constantly see other riders splitting at speeds near the speed limit and at speed differentials of 50mph. I see them weaving in and out of traffic between the HOV, number 1, and number 2 lanes. If anything goes wrong they don't have a ****ing chance in hell. And that is what is missing from the studies. There is no data collected on how the lane sharing/splitting was done and associating that with crash data. To put it bluntly, was the activity done in a safe, prudent, and sane manner? I would wager that the majority of lane splitting crashes are the result of inexperienced riders, unsafe speed/speed differential, erratic maneuvering, or everything.
Yes, but that is true for pretty much all vehicle safety studies. I agree that judgement and technique make a lot of difference in the safety of a given maneuver. I was mainly questioning the statement, that I believe to be erroneous, that claimed that many studies showed the lane splitting increased safety. I simply have seen zero evidence that this is true in practice.
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post #26 of 44 Old 04-07-2019, 12:15 PM Thread Starter
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Yes, but that is true for pretty much all vehicle safety studies. I agree that judgement and technique make a lot of difference in the safety of a given maneuver. I was mainly questioning the statement, that I believe to be erroneous, that claimed that many studies showed the lane splitting increased safety. I simply have seen zero evidence that this is true in practice.
Without studies, by inspection only, I'd bet as a minimum: Rear-end crashes, automobiles striking stopped motorcycles, are reduced by filtering.

Otherwise . . . hard to perform and to quantify impact of lane sharing/lane filtering/lane splitting studies in an overall and catholic universe; hard to document the consequences beyond restricted scope. All road users are dependent upon each other for safety; for example, a wheelie king organ donor, filtering or splitting at warp speed . . . his crashes aren't necessarily a consequence of the initiative.

Without formal studies (even from BERKLEY!), the California practice seemed safe and effective to me, experienced for a decade; executed with some common sense. Would the same be true, should lane filtering/sharing/splitting become suddenly permitted where I live now, in the mysterious east? My postulation: A period of motorist education, and a shift in cultural values of the motoring public hereabouts might be required.

Some, "cagers" around here resent the mobility of motorcyclists, even under restrictive legislation/regulation now in force. Permit lane filtering/sharing/splitting? If ever instituted, at least at first, "Let's be careful out there!" ("Hill Street Blues.")

-------------------------------

Just for discussion, what's the argument AGAINST motorcycle lane filtering/sharing/splitting? (Maryland recently considered passing legislation permitting one or more of the triad (lane filtering/sharing/splitting. Surprisingly (to me), considerable numbers of MD motorcyclists were "agin'" it. Don't know if any of the critics ever rode motorcycles in California.)

“You better put down that gun. You got two ways to go, put it down or use it. Even if you tie me, you’re gonna be dead.” "John Russell" (Paul Newman), Hombre

Last edited by Damocles; 04-07-2019 at 12:19 PM.
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post #27 of 44 Old 04-07-2019, 12:50 PM
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Without studies, by inspection only, I'd bet as a minimum: Rear-end crashes, automobiles striking stopped motorcycles, are reduced by filtering.

Otherwise . . . hard to perform and to quantify impact of lane sharing/lane filtering/lane splitting studies in an overall and catholic universe; hard to document the consequences beyond restricted scope. All road users are dependent upon each other for safety; for example, a wheelie king organ donor, filtering or splitting at warp speed . . . his crashes aren't necessarily a consequence of the initiative.

Without formal studies (even from BERKLEY!), the California practice seemed safe and effective to me, experienced for a decade; executed with some common sense. Would the same be true, should lane filtering/sharing/splitting become suddenly permitted where I live now, in the mysterious east? My postulation: A period of motorist education, and a shift in cultural values of the motoring public hereabouts might be required.

Some, "cagers" around here resent the mobility of motorcyclists, even under restrictive legislation/regulation now in force. Permit lane filtering/sharing/splitting? If ever instituted, at least at first, "Let's be careful out there!" ("Hill Street Blues.")

-------------------------------

Just for discussion, what's the argument AGAINST motorcycle lane filtering/sharing/splitting? (Maryland recently considered passing legislation permitting one or more of the triad (lane filtering/sharing/splitting. Surprisingly (to me), considerable numbers of MD motorcyclists were "agin'" it. Don't know if any of the critics ever rode motorcycles in California.)
I suspect also that rear-enders are reduced, but I also expect that a sideswipes are increased. The question is: what is the net? I have no idea and I have seen no studies that address this.

I would say the argument against lane splitting is that it reduces the maneuvering space for cars that may need to move to the extreme edge of their lane or even depart the lane to avoid someone encroaching on their lane. Lanes are about twice as wide as most cars for a reason. If you put motorcycles in the intervening space, you have now greatly reduced the lateral maneuvering space for the vehicles in their lane.

I don’t see a real argument against filtering other than the need to merge back together as traffic begins to flow again, unless we create “Scooter boxes” at each stop light as done in Asia.

I see this much like lane sharing in my home state of PA. Two motorcycles CAN legally share a lane here, but I never ride that way and I certainly don’t recommend it for the reason I mentioned above. I want my full lane for lateral adjustments if needed and I always ride in a stagger on group rides even though riding side-by-side is completely legal in PA. I don’t consider it a smart practice and if I would not ride beside a motorcycle in my lane, why would I want a motorcycle between me and the vehicle in the next lane over? The answer is: I do not want another vehicle sharing my lane, even if that vehicle is another motorcycle.
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post #28 of 44 Old 04-07-2019, 01:49 PM Thread Starter
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I suspect also that rear-enders are reduced, but I also expect that a sideswipes are increased. The question is: what is the net? I have no idea and I have seen no studies that address this.

I would say the argument against lane splitting is that it reduces the maneuvering space for cars that may need to move to the extreme edge of their lane or even depart the lane to avoid someone encroaching on their lane. Lanes are about twice as wide as most cars for a reason. If you put motorcycles in the intervening space, you have now greatly reduced the lateral maneuvering space for the vehicles in their lane.

I don’t see a real argument against filtering other than the need to merge back together as traffic begins to flow again, unless we create “Scooter boxes” at each stop light as done in Asia.

I see this much like lane sharing in my home state of PA. Two motorcycles CAN legally share a lane here, but I never ride that way and I certainly don’t recommend it for the reason I mentioned above. I want my full lane for lateral adjustments if needed and I always ride in a stagger on group rides even though riding side-by-side is completely legal in PA. I don’t consider it a smart practice and if I would not ride beside a motorcycle in my lane, why would I want a motorcycle between me and the vehicle in the next lane over? The answer is: I do not want another vehicle sharing my lane, even if that vehicle is another motorcycle.
Remember, Voyager: Wherever lane filtering/sharing/splitting is permitted, the practice remains OPTIONAL! Any motorcyclist may, "stay in line," if he so chooses.

Virginia (my state of residence) recently legalized two motorcycles, side-by-side, in the same lane of traffic. No matter how artistic and photogenic the videos of C.H.I.P.S. might be, I DO NOT want to ride alongside another motorcycle, and do not, for some of the same reasons you state.

Not the same as lane-splitting in California. Nothing is 100 % repeatable, I suppose, but . . . in CA, when filtering through a gaggle of stopped automobiles at a traffic light, if the light changed while I was in mid-filter, the motorists always gave me room to insinuate myself into the procession, as speed increased. A function, I think, of a motoring public understanding and accepting the concept of motorcycles sharing lanes.

This said, I doubt lane filtering/sharing/splitting will EVER come to the eastern US in the lifetime of anyone reading this website!

“You better put down that gun. You got two ways to go, put it down or use it. Even if you tie me, you’re gonna be dead.” "John Russell" (Paul Newman), Hombre
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post #29 of 44 Old 04-07-2019, 02:35 PM
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Remember, Voyager: Wherever lane filtering/sharing/splitting is permitted, the practice remains OPTIONAL! Any motorcyclist may, "stay in line," if he so chooses.

Virginia (my state of residence) recently legalized two motorcycles, side-by-side, in the same lane of traffic. No matter how artistic and photogenic the videos of C.H.I.P.S. might be, I DO NOT want to ride alongside another motorcycle, and do not, for some of the same reasons you state.

Not the same as lane-splitting in California. Nothing is 100 % repeatable, I suppose, but . . . in CA, when filtering through a gaggle of stopped automobiles at a traffic light, if the light changed while I was in mid-filter, the motorists always gave me room to insinuate myself into the procession, as speed increased. A function, I think, of a motoring public understanding and accepting the concept of motorcycles sharing lanes.

This said, I doubt lane filtering/sharing/splitting will EVER come to the eastern US in the lifetime of anyone reading this website!
No, it is not optional. It is optional for the motorcyclist who chooses to lane split or not, but it is not optional for the car or other motorcycle who has their lane effectively narrowed by the motorcycle doing the lane splitting. At least I am not aware of any signal that a motorist can give to tell a motorcycle that they don’t want their lane shared. So, it is a one-sided optional and that was my point.

I am fine with filtering at a stoplight or a traffic jam where the cars are stopped or effectively stopped (<10 MPH or so), but lane splitting/sharing at normal road speeds is not a good idea, in my opinion.
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post #30 of 44 Old 04-07-2019, 05:50 PM Thread Starter
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No, it is not optional. It is optional for the motorcyclist who chooses to lane split or not, but it is not optional for the car or other motorcycle who has their lane effectively narrowed by the motorcycle doing the lane splitting. At least I am not aware of any signal that a motorist can give to tell a motorcycle that they don’t want their lane shared. So, it is a one-sided optional and that was my point.

I am fine with filtering at a stoplight or a traffic jam where the cars are stopped or effectively stopped (<10 MPH or so), but lane splitting/sharing at normal road speeds is not a good idea, in my opinion.
If you consider a lane filtering/sharing/splitting motorcycle a threat to your own safety, I can understand your opposition, Voyager.

"Studies" may exist, quantifying and qualifying peril (as in, higher accident rates, etc.) caused by the practice, but I'm unaware of any.

In years and thousands of miles ridden in the California environment, I never felt threatened by the presence of a lane-splitting motorcycle, whether I was on a bike or in an automobile. Not to say I was not merely unaware of the danger posed by the practice.

Some time spent in your own observation, and perhaps participation, in the California system might corroborate your opinion, or contribute to a revision of your views.

Regardless, fear not. My prediction, lane filtering/sharing/splitting will never become legally approved in Pennsylvania.

=============================

Yet, why concern ourselves with this issue? In ten years time, we are told there will be no internal combustion engines, thus no motorcycles or automobiles as we know them, nor any cows and consequent beef, milk, butter, ice cream, cheese, yogurt, leather, etc.!

“You better put down that gun. You got two ways to go, put it down or use it. Even if you tie me, you’re gonna be dead.” "John Russell" (Paul Newman), Hombre

Last edited by Damocles; 04-07-2019 at 06:21 PM.
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