Lane Filtering OKed For Utah - Page 4 - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
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post #31 of 44 Old 04-07-2019, 06:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
If you consider a lane filtering/sharing/splitting motorcycle a threat to your own safety, I can understand your opposition, Voyager.

"Studies" may exist, quantifying and qualifying peril (as in, higher accident rates, etc.) caused by the practice, but I'm unaware of any.

In years and thousands of miles ridden in the California environment, I never felt threatened by the presence of a lane-splitting motorcycle, whether I was on a bike or in an automobile. Not to say I was not merely unaware of the danger posed by the practice.

Some time spent in your own observation, and perhaps participation, in the California system might corroborate your opinion, or contribute to a revision of your views.

Regardless, fear not. My prediction, lane filtering/sharing/splitting will never become legally approved in Pennsylvania.

=============================

Yet, why concern ourselves with this issue? In ten years time, we are told there will be no internal combustion engines, thus no motorcycles or automobiles as we know them, nor any cows and consequent beef, milk, butter, ice cream, cheese, yogurt, leather, etc.!
As I have said, I am not opposed to filtering. It is lane sharing/splitting that I find unnecessary and dangerous. I have ridden only three days in CA and I saw very few other motorcycles and virtually no land splitting. I may have saw some going through Sacramento, but noting noteworthy.

I have ridden a fair bit in Europe where they ride more aggressively and do some lane splitting and lots of filtering in the cities, but that is done well and the skill of the riders in Europe is in general much higher than in the US.

I would not rule it out in PA. I never would have guessed we would repeal mandatory helmet laws either, but we did.

Last edited by Voyager; 04-08-2019 at 07:26 AM.
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post #32 of 44 Old 04-07-2019, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
As I have said, I am not opposed to filtering. It is lane sharing/splitting that I find unnecessary and dangerous. I have ridden only three days in CA and I saw very few other motorcycles and virtually no land splitting. I may have saw some going through Sacramento, but noting noteworthy.

I have ridden a fair bit in Europe where they ride more aggressively and do some lane splitting and lots of filtering in the cities, but that is done well and the skill of the riders in Europe is in general much higher than in the US.
Sorry, but what? You say you've only ridden 3 days in the only US state where it's legal (and more importantly, culturally integrated and accepted for decades) and yet that qualifies you to make assumptions about its safety across the entire country?

Lane splitting/lane sharing is not the same thing as riding next to another vehicle/motorcycle at the same speed. The motorcyclist should always be moving faster than the car, and they should never be next to another vehicle for more than maybe a second. Sideswipes just aren't an issue here - being cut off is. And that doesn't happen unless the motorcyclist is going too fast for the conditions and/or if a car switches lanes without adequate warning (i.e. swerves over, fails to signal, or both).

Lane splitting doesn't decrease the effective area of car driver's lane for at least 2 reasons: The bike isn't there for more than a few seconds at a time, and American lanes are absolutely massive. Per wikipedia, freeway lanes in the US use a standard width of 3.7m (12') where european countries have minimums of between 2.5m/8.2' - 3.25/10.7'. There's more than enough room to go around, especially since (as you say) european countries are much better at lane splitting with less space than the states. Some of the cars on the road here take up half or less than half of the space of a lane.

And here's a video of me lane splitting in what I'd consider a safe and practical manner:
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post #33 of 44 Old 04-07-2019, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
As I have said, I am not opposed to filtering. It is lane sharing/splitting that I find unnecessary and dangerous. I have ridden only three days in CA and I saw very few other motorcycles and virtually no land splitting. I may have saw some going through Sacramento, but noting noteworthy.

I have ridden a fair bit in Europe where they ride more aggressively and do some lane splitting and lots of filtering in the cities, but that is done well and the skill of the riders in Europe is in general much higher than in the US.

I would not rule it out in PA. I never would have guess we would repeal mandatory helmet laws either, but we did.
Attitudes concerning helmet laws seem WEIRD, to me! Personally, I wore motorcycle helmets BEFORE they became mandatory in California.

A few years ago, I went on a poker run, originating in Louisiana and coursing through parts of Arkansas and Texas. This run was sponsored by a law enforcement organization; many cops on Harleys participating (I, on my KLR250). I would have expected the law enforcement officers to be particularly safety-conscious, however . . . they wore their helmets in LA and AR, where helmets for all are the law, but . . . as soon as we crossed the Texas line (age-dependent helmet wear only required in Texas), they all stopped to remove their helmets! We moved on, returning to LA, where . . . upon crossing the line, they all stopped and donned their headgear, as required by law!

Studies DO exist, concluding motorcycle helmets reduce deaths and serious injuries; however . . . some motorcyclists don't like to wear helmets!

“You better put down that gun. You got two ways to go, put it down or use it. Even if you tie me, you’re gonna be dead.” "John Russell" (Paul Newman), Hombre
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post #34 of 44 Old 04-08-2019, 07:10 AM
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When I’m in a cage and watch the bikes splitting, it looks dangerous as hell. When I’m on a bike, it feels totally okay.

I used to not split, and swore I never would.

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post #35 of 44 Old 04-08-2019, 07:33 AM
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Originally Posted by insan3guy View Post
Sorry, but what? You say you've only ridden 3 days in the only US state where it's legal (and more importantly, culturally integrated and accepted for decades) and yet that qualifies you to make assumptions about its safety across the entire country?

Lane splitting/lane sharing is not the same thing as riding next to another vehicle/motorcycle at the same speed. The motorcyclist should always be moving faster than the car, and they should never be next to another vehicle for more than maybe a second. Sideswipes just aren't an issue here - being cut off is. And that doesn't happen unless the motorcyclist is going too fast for the conditions and/or if a car switches lanes without adequate warning (i.e. swerves over, fails to signal, or both).

Lane splitting doesn't decrease the effective area of car driver's lane for at least 2 reasons: The bike isn't there for more than a few seconds at a time, and American lanes are absolutely massive. Per wikipedia, freeway lanes in the US use a standard width of 3.7m (12') where european countries have minimums of between 2.5m/8.2' - 3.25/10.7'. There's more than enough room to go around, especially since (as you say) european countries are much better at lane splitting with less space than the states. Some of the cars on the road here take up half or less than half of the space of a lane.

And here's a video of me lane splitting in what I'd consider a safe and practical manner: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qApoovu5sfg
What I consider to be safe riding practice does not vary based on what state I am riding in.

Safety is in the eye of the beholder. Your video shows you traveling probably 20-30 MPH faster than the cars. Had that car that crossed in front of you done so a second or too later, you would have been in a pickle.

I simply believe that my lane is my lane - all of it. I want to know that I can use its full extend at any time possible if I need to make an evasive maneuver. Having a lane splitter come up beside me just as I need to swerve to avoid a car that changed lanes and did not see me is a situation I prefer to avoid.

I think it would be much safer to only allow motorcycles to move to the front of a traffic jam by using the shoulder.
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post #36 of 44 Old 04-08-2019, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
Attitudes concerning helmet laws seem WEIRD, to me! Personally, I wore motorcycle helmets BEFORE they became mandatory in California.

A few years ago, I went on a poker run, originating in Louisiana and coursing through parts of Arkansas and Texas. This run was sponsored by a law enforcement organization; many cops on Harleys participating (I, on my KLR250). I would have expected the law enforcement officers to be particularly safety-conscious, however . . . they wore their helmets in LA and AR, where helmets for all are the law, but . . . as soon as we crossed the Texas line (age-dependent helmet wear only required in Texas), they all stopped to remove their helmets! We moved on, returning to LA, where . . . upon crossing the line, they all stopped and donned their headgear, as required by law!

Studies DO exist, concluding motorcycle helmets reduce deaths and serious injuries; however . . . some motorcyclists don't like to wear helmets!
Likewise. I wore a helmet riding off-road when I was young even though it wasn’t required. And I have always worn a helmet on the street. The only exception was the day my wife and I cruised through Garden of the Gods in Colorado Springs. CO does not require helmets and we were cruising in first gear at 10-15 MPH just enjoying the view. I calculated the risks to be minimal in that scenario compared to the better view of the scenery.

I see helmet laws quite differently though than lane splitting/sharing. If you crash without a helmet and splatter your brains all over the road, that really doesn’t cause me any danger, unless maybe I skid on your brains and crash.

If you share my lane, you are infringing on my space. That gives me less room for evasive maneuvers and thus reduces my safety. It doesn’t matter if you are talking riding, driving or personal defense, distance is always your friend. Lane splitting reduces my maneuvering distance and thus reduces my safety.

I have no qualms with folks who make choices that affect them alone. It is when your choices negatively affect me that I take exception.
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post #37 of 44 Old 04-08-2019, 07:42 AM
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I wouldn't want to lane split. I avoid anyplace with traffic. I like to ride where even yellow lines don't matter. The bike is a "just for fun" vehicle. It never "has to go" anywhere. If there was that many humans in the area, I'd be looking out the window of an F150.
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post #38 of 44 Old 04-08-2019, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
What I consider to be safe riding practice does not vary based on what state I am riding in.

Safety is in the eye of the beholder. Your video shows you traveling probably 20-30 MPH faster than the cars. Had that car that crossed in front of you done so a second or too later, you would have been in a pickle.

I simply believe that my lane is my lane - all of it. I want to know that I can use its full extend at any time possible if I need to make an evasive maneuver. Having a lane splitter come up beside me just as I need to swerve to avoid a car that changed lanes and did not see me is a situation I prefer to avoid.

I think it would be much safer to only allow motorcycles to move to the front of a traffic jam by using the shoulder.
There were about 2.5 seconds of travel time between me and that suv, so... even if they did pull out later I still would've been just fine. If we use math and the USDOT's regs on line length (10' + 30' gaps), we can see that the cars are doing appx 21mph (32 feet per second) and I'm doing appx 36mph (53 feet per second). A UC Berkely Study on the practice suggests that lane splitting is safe up to 50mph with a delta up to 15mph. It's a fisheye lens dude, everything looks faster.

My point is that your view on lane splitting is skewed by virtue of not having been around it enough. While you may consider your views on safe riding practices to be unchanging, that doesn't mean that the practices are as well. Again, it is common and expected (as shown by the roughly 1-in-5 cars that move over for me on a daily basis [and who are good people for doing so]) in california for motorcycles to split lanes, and to do so within the number 1 and 2 lanes (far left).

I'm not arguing that lane splitting at or above the speed limit is safe, let alone smart. What I AM saying is that lane splitting when done properly is safe, and can in fact be safer for the motorcyclist.
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post #39 of 44 Old 04-08-2019, 08:41 PM
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I will say that to the un-initiated like me, the video did seem about twice as quick of over-taking speed as prudent. But I'm from Wyoming!

This is not the picture that I was looking for, but it happens,
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post #40 of 44 Old 04-08-2019, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by insan3guy View Post
There were about 2.5 seconds of travel time between me and that suv, so... even if they did pull out later I still would've been just fine. If we use math and the USDOT's regs on line length (10' + 30' gaps), we can see that the cars are doing appx 21mph (32 feet per second) and I'm doing appx 36mph (53 feet per second). A UC Berkely Study on the practice suggests that lane splitting is safe up to 50mph with a delta up to 15mph. It's a fisheye lens dude, everything looks faster.

My point is that your view on lane splitting is skewed by virtue of not having been around it enough. While you may consider your views on safe riding practices to be unchanging, that doesn't mean that the practices are as well. Again, it is common and expected (as shown by the roughly 1-in-5 cars that move over for me on a daily basis [and who are good people for doing so]) in california for motorcycles to split lanes, and to do so within the number 1 and 2 lanes (far left).

I'm not arguing that lane splitting at or above the speed limit is safe, let alone smart. What I AM saying is that lane splitting when done properly is safe, and can in fact be safer for the motorcyclist.
I have close to 10,000 miles of experience with it. Thankfully, it is only the land of “fruits and nuts” that currently allows this practice.
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