Yes it's about oil. - Page 2 - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
KLR & Other Motorcycle Related Discussion Grab a seat and discuss whatever you like about the KLR or other related topics. Within reason.

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post #11 of 55 Old 06-15-2019, 08:57 AM
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Is FAILURE to use the MOST PERFECT OIL known to mankind for the KLR (some say, Kawasaki oil; others, AMSOIL, etc.) COMMITTING the UNFORGIVABLE SIN of . . . ENGINE ABUSE?????????????

What are the MAINTENANCE CONSEQUENCES of feeding a KLR less-than-the best LUBRICANT? For example, how many miles and operational hours are SACRIFICED for the cruel and insensitive act of NOT using the ONE PERFECT OIL in a KLR?

Would a FRIENDLY, and PERSONAL, analysis by the convivial Blackstone analysts answer the question?

Motor oil, even "SYNTHETIC" ones, depend on (dare I use the term?) FOSSIL FUELS (whose use dooms the planet earth to total extinction in 10-12 years). So . . . why should motorcyclists be complicit in DESTROYING THE PLANET? (How do synthetic lubricants use fossil fuels? First, petroleum is the base for many so-called "synthetics." Otherwise, the refining and chemical processes necessary use POWER produced from the dreaded and deadly fossil fuels (oil, coal, natural gas) in the manufacturing process.)

Alternative (or, how to save the world to the satisfaction of concerned "environmentalists"): Use WHALE OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whale oil possesses unique characteristics; long used, for example, by watchmakers. Why not bottle the lubricant and sell it to motorcyclists? Absolutely, ZERO "carbon footprint," the lethal umbra covering our present-day energy practices. No subsidy to the evil fossil fuel industry if this "green," natural lubricant is used.

But, you ask . . . what about the propulsion systems of the SHIPS used to harvest the whales? Oil- or coal-fired vessels remain complicit in their pollution processes; "green" folk run, screaming, from the thought of nuclear power in any form . . . THUS, we shall return to the use of WIND POWER; only sailing ships shall be used to hunt and transport whales used for fuel and lubricant purposes. (If heat is necessary for producing whale oil yield, previously-refined whale oil will be used as a heat source for this purpose.)

Why wind-powered sailing ships? Because the TRAINS, replacing internal-combustion engine-powered conveyances and all airplanes, cannot maneuver successfully about the ocean wide, where whales are found; sea winds have no carbon footprint.

I await meticulous Blackstone analyses of whale oil samples submitted from KLR use (special interest in krill content).

-----------------------------------------------------

EDIT: Another advantage of whale oil: A RENEWABLE resource (unlike depletable fossil fuels). Through animal husbandry, "herds" of whales can be managed not unlike cattle herds today. WAIT! Bad example. I forgot: We shall have no cattle in the brave, new GREEN world of our future! Maybe, domesticated whales, as in contemporary farm-raised salmon enterprises?

“You better put down that gun. You got two ways to go, put it down or use it. Even if you tie me, you’re gonna be dead.” "John Russell" (Paul Newman), Hombre

Last edited by Damocles; 06-15-2019 at 09:31 AM.
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post #12 of 55 Old 06-15-2019, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
Have you been over to Toms Souperdoo site recently, I noticed he has a new Oil Temperature write-up that I haven't had time to read. But if one can over-heat the KLR650 engine oil, one has probably done something else severely Wrong.
https://www.souperdoo.com/stuff%20th...il-temperature
Indeed, something is severely wrong if KLR oil over-heats.

But I have an air-cooled MC with an oil temperature gauge. My car also has an oil temperature gauge but neither the MC or the car gauges have a "red zone". In other words, what does too hot look like? Hence my curiosity about the affects of temperature on oil performance.

Jason
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post #13 of 55 Old 06-15-2019, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norton 850 View Post
...In other words, what does too hot look like?...
It is a mystery of the universe, Deteriorata style.

A couple of largely-accepted numbers are these: Conventional motor oils are good to a sump temperature of 250*F and synthetics* are good to >300*F. Over those temperatures, both oils will start to break down.

There are a number of factors in coming up with an ideal oil temperature for a given application. One needs to identify those factors, find reasonable opinions on the ideal temperatures for those factors, discard factors that aren't important, and average the remaining.

I'm chasing a 225*F sump temperature.


*There are different kinds of synthetics, those based on petroleum bases stocks (Group III) and those that are truly synthetic (Group IV, V). I don't know if the Group III oils would be considered as conventional or synthetic as far as maximum temperatures.


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Last edited by Tom Schmitz; 06-15-2019 at 11:44 AM.
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post #14 of 55 Old 06-15-2019, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by PaddyD View Post
Well, I currently have a sample of Motul 7100 10w40 at Blackstone awaiting testing.

, but if the Rotella turns out to be even slightly above average I'll probably continue with it if only because at under $20 per gallon I can afford to dump it every 1,500 -2,000 miles or so. I think my owners manual called for a 7,500 mile interval, but to me that's a lot of use for 2.2 qts of oil in a motorcycle. I'll let you all know how the Motul tests when I get the report back, but I won't be spending $45 per gallon again on oil. I just can't force myself to leave it in long enough to make it cost effective.
PaddyD,
Part of the reason for my Oil Analysis Thread was to encourage owners to Quit wasting perfectly fine engine oil by changing TOO Often.

I was glad to read that you ran the original factory oil the full 500-600 miles before doing its 1st oil change, unlike the klr650.darknet site that encouraged new owners to perform 3 - 4 oil changes in the 1st 1000 miles. Thereby increasing the likely hood of new owners stripping or worse yet Fracturing the oil drain boss times 3.

The first engine oil change can easily run 2500 miles to the 3000 mile mark. And then one can run 3000 - 5000 mile intervals forever there after. But "KLRva"s Mobil 1 15W50 oil report does show that even 7500 mile oil changes are possible with High Quality oil in a Healthy KLR650 engine.
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post #15 of 55 Old 06-15-2019, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Schmitz View Post
It is a mystery of the universe, Deteriorata style.

A couple of largely-accepted numbers are these: Conventional motor oils are good to a sump temperature of 250*F and synthetics* are good to >300*F. Over those temperatures, both oils will start to break down.

There are a number of factors in coming up with an ideal oil temperature for a given application. One needs to identify those factors, find reasonable opinions on the ideal temperatures for those factors, discard factors that aren't important, and average the remaining.

I'm chasing a 225*F sump temperature.


*There are different kinds of synthetics, those based on petroleum bases stocks (Group III) and those that are truly synthetic (Group IV, V). I don't know if the Group III oils would be considered as conventional or synthetic as far as maximum temperatures.

My car has an oil temp of about 215F on a hot day (85F+) on the freeway. When driven hard at high revs the temp will increase to 225F or so. In contrast my air-cooled MC will see oil temps at the bottom of the sump of around 250F when worked hard on curvy mountain roads. In prolonged stop-and-go traffic conditions the MC oil temp will rise past 250F, yikes! Both vehicles have Mobil 1 full synthetic base-stock oil so I should be ok.

The problem with semi-synthetic oil is that you have no idea how much of the oil is synthetic and how much is dino oil. In my mind semi-synthetic is a marketing scheme and I lump it in with conventional dino oil and will not buy it, owing to its premium price over dino oil. If I feel a vehicle requires synthetic I purchase full-synthetic base-stock oil.

I use dino oil in the KLR as it does not seem to run hot enough to demand synthetic oil. The 225F sump temperature you are experiencing is from what vehicle?

Best,

Jason
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post #16 of 55 Old 06-15-2019, 06:02 PM
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The KLR runs, at most, 215*F. That is with ambients well into triple digits and running at freeway speeds. Normally it is closer to 200*F.

I'm trying to get it up to 225*F.

Measurement of temperature is at the oil pump outlet, which approximates sump temperature.

Tom [email protected]

“Neither of the two people in the room paid any attention to the way I came in, although only one of them was dead.” -Philip Marlowe

“'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used.” -Napoleon Bonaparte


Sting like a butterfly.
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post #17 of 55 Old 06-15-2019, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post

But many KLR engines are now achieving over 100,000 miles, some over 150,000 miles and at least one over 200,000 miles on apparently just about any 5W40 / 10W40 / 15W40 / 10W50 / 15W50 / 20W50 which may be readily available.

Just want to support the above statement. My bike is currently at 265,000km (about 180,000 miles). Ever since I bought it with 50,000km on the clock it has had oil changes every 5000km (3000miles) with whatever is available. It is usually a 20W50 and only about half the time is it specifically motorcycle rated. I travel a lot overseas and many of the times I don't have much choice in what is available and often the brands I've used have been unknown to me.

Anyway, after all this time I've had nil oil related problems - bottom end of found Anna can bearings look good. I have however noticed with some oils (probably the unknown ones but I've never kept track) the consumption rate towards the end of the 5000 km might go up a bit - but this doesn't seem to hurt the engine, as soon as I change the oil all goes back to normal.

In summary, I fully support the view that engines are wrecked by not watching the oil level - the type of oil used, as long as it is an appropriate grade, is a minimal issue in longevity.


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post #18 of 55 Old 06-15-2019, 06:50 PM
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Ok the spell checker scrambled a few words in the middle of the above. It should say "Bottom end is sound and cam bearings look good".

Apologies for not proof reading.

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post #19 of 55 Old 06-15-2019, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by awayonmybike View Post
Ok the spell checker scrambled a few words in the middle of the above. It should say "Bottom end is sound and cam bearings look good".

Apologies for not proof reading.

Sent from my Moto G (5S) Plus using Tapatalk
Very glad to read of your bikes 180,000 miles + on any and every oil available from where ever!

How much is a boat ride for a rider & bike from Australia to India or Africa? And back to home, if there is an appreciable difference?

pdwestman
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post #20 of 55 Old 06-16-2019, 11:30 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
PaddyD,
Part of the reason for my Oil Analysis Thread was to encourage owners to Quit wasting perfectly fine engine oil by changing TOO Often.

I was glad to read that you ran the original factory oil the full 500-600 miles before doing its 1st oil change, unlike the klr650.darknet site that encouraged new owners to perform 3 - 4 oil changes in the 1st 1000 miles. Thereby increasing the likely hood of new owners stripping or worse yet Fracturing the oil drain boss times 3.

The first engine oil change can easily run 2500 miles to the 3000 mile mark. And then one can run 3000 - 5000 mile intervals forever there after. But "KLRva"s Mobil 1 15W50 oil report does show that even 7500 mile oil changes are possible with High Quality oil in a Healthy KLR650 engine.
Yes and I know I'm guilty of wasting a few gallons of oil over the years. Even with today's great oils, I just can't seem to let that oil go that far. As for the drain stripping. I always worry about threading a steel plug into aluminum threads. I always use some brake clean spray on the threads of the plug to remove any grit and judiciously clean around it prior to removal. I think there have been a lot of threads ruined by people screwing in the plug with dirt in the threads. Lastly, I limit the torque to 180 inch pounds and no more. Why the manual states 21 id a mystery to me. I have no weepage or drips at 15 lbs so see no need to tighten more. Knock on wood, never had a stripped drain since my dad kicked my ass for stripping the drain on my 69 Honda Mini Trail.. Lesson was learned.
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