Yes it's about oil. - Page 3 - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
KLR & Other Motorcycle Related Discussion Grab a seat and discuss whatever you like about the KLR or other related topics. Within reason.

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post #21 of 55 Old 06-16-2019, 03:51 PM
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Pdwestman. Sorry I can't really answer your question accurately about shipping costs out of Australia to India or Africa as I've never tried either. My two shipments out of Australia have been to Chile and South Korea - both were around US$2000 including crating. Note these were both by air freight as nowadays, with so many wide body planes flying the world, there is often not a huge cost saving in using sea freight but there is always a huge time penalty and much higher risk of unexpected delays.

One issue to always consider is additional costs at the receiving end. With sea freight there tends to be much higher than with air freight, and seen often largely unpredictable. Normally at the airport I expect to pay $200-300 to get my bike back- a mix of warehouse and customs fees. The one time I freighted by sea back into Australia the total in country charges at the port were US800 totally negating the freight cost saving.

For what it's worth I've now done five long distance air freight movements of the bike. The cost for each have been in the US$2000 -$2500 region so I suggest that as a budgeting figure.

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post #22 of 55 Old 06-16-2019, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
Is FAILURE to use the MOST PERFECT OIL known to mankind for the KLR (some say, Kawasaki oil; others, AMSOIL, etc.) COMMITTING the UNFORGIVABLE SIN of . . . ENGINE ABUSE?????????????

What are the MAINTENANCE CONSEQUENCES of feeding a KLR less-than-the best LUBRICANT? For example, how many miles and operational hours are SACRIFICED for the cruel and insensitive act of NOT using the ONE PERFECT OIL in a KLR?

Would a FRIENDLY, and PERSONAL, analysis by the convivial Blackstone analysts answer the question?

Motor oil, even "SYNTHETIC" ones, depend on (dare I use the term?) FOSSIL FUELS (whose use dooms the planet earth to total extinction in 10-12 years). So . . . why should motorcyclists be complicit in DESTROYING THE PLANET? (How do synthetic lubricants use fossil fuels? First, petroleum is the base for many so-called "synthetics." Otherwise, the refining and chemical processes necessary use POWER produced from the dreaded and deadly fossil fuels (oil, coal, natural gas) in the manufacturing process.)

Alternative (or, how to save the world to the satisfaction of concerned "environmentalists"): Use WHALE OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Whale oil possesses unique characteristics; long used, for example, by watchmakers. Why not bottle the lubricant and sell it to motorcyclists? Absolutely, ZERO "carbon footprint," the lethal umbra covering our present-day energy practices. No subsidy to the evil fossil fuel industry if this "green," natural lubricant is used.

But, you ask . . . what about the propulsion systems of the SHIPS used to harvest the whales? Oil- or coal-fired vessels remain complicit in their pollution processes; "green" folk run, screaming, from the thought of nuclear power in any form . . . THUS, we shall return to the use of WIND POWER; only sailing ships shall be used to hunt and transport whales used for fuel and lubricant purposes. (If heat is necessary for producing whale oil yield, previously-refined whale oil will be used as a heat source for this purpose.)

Why wind-powered sailing ships? Because the TRAINS, replacing internal-combustion engine-powered conveyances and all airplanes, cannot maneuver successfully about the ocean wide, where whales are found; sea winds have no carbon footprint.

I await meticulous Blackstone analyses of whale oil samples submitted from KLR use (special interest in krill content).

-----------------------------------------------------

EDIT: Another advantage of whale oil: A RENEWABLE resource (unlike depletable fossil fuels). Through animal husbandry, "herds" of whales can be managed not unlike cattle herds today. WAIT! Bad example. I forgot: We shall have no cattle in the brave, new GREEN world of our future! Maybe, domesticated whales, as in contemporary farm-raised salmon enterprises?

You need to FIX your SHIFT key as it is sticking every so often resulting in words that are in all CAPITAL letters and makes your writing look like it was done by a six year-old.
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post #23 of 55 Old 06-16-2019, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Schmitz View Post
It is a mystery of the universe, Deteriorata style.

A couple of largely-accepted numbers are these: Conventional motor oils are good to a sump temperature of 250*F and synthetics* are good to >300*F. Over those temperatures, both oils will start to break down.

There are a number of factors in coming up with an ideal oil temperature for a given application. One needs to identify those factors, find reasonable opinions on the ideal temperatures for those factors, discard factors that aren't important, and average the remaining.

I'm chasing a 225*F sump temperature.


*There are different kinds of synthetics, those based on petroleum bases stocks (Group III) and those that are truly synthetic (Group IV, V). I don't know if the Group III oils would be considered as conventional or synthetic as far as maximum temperatures.

Synthetic oils really have only two advantages: higher temperature range, both high end and low end, and generally hold viscosity better for longer change intervals. I use Mobil 1 in my cars mainly for the low temperature advantages although with modern cars using 0W and 5W oils, the cold temp advantage isn’t as great as it was when cars used 10W oils.

I don’t use synthetic oil in either of my motorcycles as it offers no real advantage. I don’t ride below about 30 degrees and neither of my bikes gets the oil above 250 so conventional oil does fine in this regime. And I rarely put more than 6,000 miles a year on my bikes so the time on the oil expires before mileage becomes an issue. So, I don’t waste money on synthetics for my bikes.
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post #24 of 55 Old 06-17-2019, 12:39 AM
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You need to FIX your SHIFT key as it is sticking every so often resulting in words that are in all CAPITAL letters and makes your writing look like it was done by a six year-old.
Thanks for your LITERARY CRITICISM, Voyager! I'll KEEP it in MIND!
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post #25 of 55 Old 06-17-2019, 04:38 AM
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been running amsoil for years, i will a close eye on this thread.
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post #26 of 55 Old 06-17-2019, 04:59 PM
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Here we go "again"!
Yabbut, Larry, our oil threads are a lot more entertaining than anyone else's.

Tom [email protected]

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“'Why' and 'How' are words so important they cannot be too often used.” -Napoleon Bonaparte


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post #27 of 55 Old 06-17-2019, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by maverick9611 View Post
been running amsoil for years, i will a close eye on this thread.
maverick9611, Have you ever considered sending a 5000 mile used sample of your chosen Amsoil into BSL to see if you are getting the performance Out of Your Oil that Amsoil advertises?

I would love to read a 5000 mile or even a 3000 mile KLR650 Amsoil report in the Oil Analysis Thread!
If you are really confident in your chosen oils performance, run it to the 7500 mile mark. We can divide the miles travelled into the ppm to compare ppm per 1000miles travelled very readily.

https://www.klrforum.com/623481-post71.html

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post #28 of 55 Old 06-17-2019, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
maverick9611, Have you ever considered sending a 5000 mile used sample of your chosen Amsoil into BSL to see if you are getting the performance Out of Your Oil that Amsoil advertises?

I would love to read a 5000 mile or even a 3000 mile KLR650 Amsoil report in the Oil Analysis Thread!
If you are really confident in your chosen oils performance, run it to the 7500 mile mark. We can divide the miles travelled into the ppm to compare ppm per 1000miles travelled very readily.

https://www.klrforum.com/623481-post71.html
Interesting prospect, pdwestman! However, I see a couple of difficulties in forming valid conclusions from the test ("Executive Summary," I think the comparison should be done with different oils, SAME bike):

1) A valid comparison between Amsoil and another lubricant, seems to me, would not be available from the proposal, because . . . no BASELINE exists for maverick9611's bike's oil analysis history. As in, an previous/subsequent analysis history of the usage interval with another lubricant.

A more valid (and perhaps sooner-available) comparison would be, I think, an oil analysis comparison between your bike's 7,500 mile maintenance interval with Amsoil, and previously-completed analyses of Kawasaki engine oil. Your bike would serve as the CONTROL element in the experiment. A "one-shot" analysis of maverick9611's oil lacks a control element.

Alternatively, maverick9611 could have analyses performed of Amsoil and another lubricant used in his bike, then compare the data.

2) Another difficulty in the evaluation, appears to me, is . . . the proposed test assumes LINEAR wear rates proportional to mileage--may not be the case. As viscosity shears along the test interval, wear rates may be different between mileage segments at 3000 miles, and mileage segments at 7,500 miles. (Don't know this, but . . . expect wear rates between, say 2000 and 3000 miles to be different from those between 6500 and 7500 miles; on the other hand, the wear rates may be strictly linear between beginning and end mileage intervals.

---------------------------

Those nit-picks aside (my reservations regarding valid comparison data may be completely unfounded), the comparison you propose seems interesting and innovative, to me . . . I'll contribute toward the analysis fee, if maverick9611 wants to launch the analysis you propose for comparison with wear rates, i.e., 3000 miles with Kawasaki oil on your bike, 7500 miles with Amsoil on maverick9611's bike.

“You better put down that gun. You got two ways to go, put it down or use it. Even if you tie me, you’re gonna be dead.” "John Russell" (Paul Newman), Hombre

Last edited by Damocles; 06-18-2019 at 03:43 AM.
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post #29 of 55 Old 06-18-2019, 10:50 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
Interesting prospect, pdwestman! However, I see a couple of difficulties in forming valid conclusions from the test ("Executive Summary," I think the comparison should be done with different oils, SAME bike):

1) A valid comparison between Amsoil and another lubricant, seems to me, would not be available from the proposal, because . . . no BASELINE exists for maverick9611's bike's oil analysis history. As in, an previous/subsequent analysis history of the usage interval with another lubricant.

A more valid (and perhaps sooner-available) comparison would be, I think, an oil analysis comparison between your bike's 7,500 mile maintenance interval with Amsoil, and previously-completed analyses of Kawasaki engine oil. Your bike would serve as the CONTROL element in the experiment. A "one-shot" analysis of maverick9611's oil lacks a control element.

Alternatively, maverick9611 could have analyses performed of Amsoil and another lubricant used in his bike, then compare the data.

2) Another difficulty in the evaluation, appears to me, is . . . the proposed test assumes LINEAR wear rates proportional to mileage--may not be the case. As viscosity shears along the test interval, wear rates may be different between mileage segments at 3000 miles, and mileage segments at 7,500 miles. (Don't know this, but . . . expect wear rates between, say 2000 and 3000 miles to be different from those between 6500 and 7500 miles; on the other hand, the wear rates may be strictly linear between beginning and end mileage intervals.

---------------------------

Those nit-picks aside (my reservations regarding valid comparison data may be completely unfounded), the comparison you propose seems interesting and innovative, to me . . . I'll contribute toward the analysis fee, if maverick9611 wants to launch the analysis you propose for comparison with wear rates, i.e., 3000 miles with Kawasaki oil on your bike, 7500 miles with Amsoil on maverick9611's bike.
I was almost thinking the same thing, but you beat me to it! I might add that to get a "true" test one would need to run the new oil about 50 miles or so then dump it. I have been following a Ford guy on youtube that tests all sorts of oils in his Ford Edge and he has found additive packages from previous oil fills to be left in the engines nooks and crannies that mix in with the next brand. So to test Amsoil legitimately, one would need to be sure there is little to no residuals from previous fills of different oil to get a true read on the Amsoil's qualities. He determined this by first sending in virgin samples then down the road sending in used samples and the reports on some show things like zinc or titanium that were not in the virgin sample but had mixed from a previous oil.

Never pick a fight with an old man.. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you..
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post #30 of 55 Old 06-18-2019, 11:01 AM
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There are two 5000 mile runs and two 3000 mile runs in this BSL report on my bike with Kawasaki petroleum oil used. https://www.klrforum.com/622345-post70.html
There is also the 7500+ mile Mobil 1 BSL report to check ones sample against. https://www.klrforum.com/623481-post71.html

Or one can simply run a mere 2000 miles & compare directly to the BSL Universal Averages 2000 mile averaged runs.
One needs to always look at the silicone, silicon, silica ppm count to be certain there is no abnormal issue with-in the engine.

I encourage everyone to take a sample and have a real look at their engine oil and the engine it is being used in. Just pick a mileage, 2000, 3000, 5000, 7500 miles.

IMO, any Healthy KLR650 with over 10,000 in-service miles using any oil and a properly serviced air filter could be fairly compared to my BSL reports, as easily as I compare my report numbers to the BSL UA numbers or against anyone elses BSL numbers.

pdwestman
Modify at "YOUR OWN RISK"!

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