Good oils for KLR 650 - Page 2 - Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum
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post #11 of 49 Old 04-10-2020, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
Generation 1 Owner's Manual says:

API SE, SF, or SG
API SH, SJ, or SL with JASO MA

And:



No Kawasaki caveats on "friction modifiers," or "energy conserving."

But . . . what does Kawasaki know?

(Hope image shows cleanly; Photobucket misbehaving (again)).


I don't think that Kawasaki would have to specify that ... They Specify a JASO MA requirement and if you look that up it specifies that the oil should be free of friction modifiers. JASO MA specifically states that. At least from what I understand and have looked up ...

I could be wrong. (Often am) ... But this is my understanding to date ...

Also, I think the OP would be hard pressed to find a JASO MA spec on the oil he is using ... It is likely out of spec ... Engine wont explode of course and with 38 HP, clutch may not slip ... But out of spec none the less ...

Last edited by MrZappo; 04-10-2020 at 02:35 PM.
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post #12 of 49 Old 04-10-2020, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MrZappo View Post
I don't think that Kawasaki would have to specify that ... They Specify a JASO MA requirement and if you look that up it specifies that the oil should be free of friction modifiers. JASO MA specifically states that. At least from what I understand and have looked up ...
Good point; I'm unfamiliar with the details/specifics of JASO MA.

The manual's presentation seems somewhat confusing, maybe ambiguous: Does the "JASO MA" designation apply to ALL the API service codes mentioned, or . . . just to one or all the lubricants mentioned on the second line?

If JASO MA requirement applies to all the oils mentioned, and if friction modifiers and "energy conserving" refining processes are verboten, your comment is most valid.

EDIT: Don't think "friction modifiers" are absolutely forbidden from JASO certification; friction modifiers are explicitly mentioned in a JASO certification process document as additives in test samples; see Post # 15 below.
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Last edited by Damocles; 04-10-2020 at 08:01 PM.
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post #13 of 49 Old 04-10-2020, 06:53 PM
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In case you were wondering:

JASO

Hope this does not cause anyones head to explode!!!
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post #14 of 49 Old 04-10-2020, 07:18 PM
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I have been very satisfied with all of the oils I have used over the years including:
Kawasaki oil
Suzuki oil
Quaker State
Pennzoil
Valvoline
Texaco, and
Shell Rotella 4T

All were 10w30, except for Rotella

Just keep it full. Otherwise, it really doesn't much matter to me.

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post #15 of 49 Old 04-10-2020, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by R/L View Post
In case you were wondering:

JASO

Hope this does not cause anyones head to explode!!!
Thanks for the authoritative reference!

On page 23, Appendix 4, Paragraph (2), Additives, including "Friction Modifiers," are countenanced (mentioned presumably as possibly present in test samples submitted). Considered as "Primary Raw Materials" in the test samples submitted, Appendix 4 mentions re-qualification necessary if the friction modifiers in the original test sample are altered.

I did not find evidence friction modifiers are summarily prohibited from JASO certification in the document; however--if friction modifiers originally present during certificatiion tests are altered, the new configuration of primary raw materials must be submitted for test and re-certification.

Correction and clarification, as always, welcomed!

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Last edited by Damocles; 04-10-2020 at 08:03 PM.
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post #16 of 49 Old 04-10-2020, 09:06 PM
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The only lubricant that can be directly traced to hurting the KLR is Nooil. If you put Nooil in you will damage the engine. If you allow Nooil to be in the engine, it will die.

Any other oil is likely to be better.

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post #17 of 49 Old 04-11-2020, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by R/L View Post
In case you were wondering:

JASO

Hope this does not cause anyones head to explode!!!
Thanks for the authoritative reference!

On page 23, Appendix 4, Paragraph (2), Additives, including "Friction Modifiers," are countenanced (mentioned presumably as possibly present in test samples submitted). Considered as "Primary Raw Materials" in the test samples submitted, Appendix 4 mentions re-qualification necessary if the friction modifiers in the original test sample are altered.

I did not find evidence friction modifiers are summarily prohibited from JASO certification in the document; however--if friction modifiers originally present during certificatiion tests are altered, the new configuration of primary raw materials must be submitted for test and re-certification.

Correction and clarification, as always, welcomed!
Your statements seem correct to me.

It begs the question (at least to us engineering types) where the line is drawn.

I'd have to theorize that whatever the "level" of modifiers that are "acceptable" in the JASO testing is measurably less than one might find in energy conserving oils hence their lack of a JASO certificate.

Or, (I've heard) that the cert carries a cost with it and some oils don't choose to apply for the cert although they may pass the testing protocols if they did.

Now, I believe that applies to mostly diesel oils and most if not all gasoline car oils have said "modifiers" and would not meet the spec if tested. And this makes sense to me although I have no specific knowledge about this.

But interesting to discuss none the less.
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post #18 of 49 Old 04-11-2020, 06:42 AM
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As indicated in the linked API document, customers (e.g. oil manufacturers) pay a license fee to use the API service symbols on their packaging.

I assume JASO does the same. (JASO is even mentioned in the document)

Therefore, just because a particular oil does not have a JASO rating it does not necessarily mean the oil does not meet the JASO requirements. It just means the manufacturer did not spend the money to have the oil tested and certified. But don't assume it does either. It could also mean the manufacturer knew it would not pass and did not submit, or it was submitted and failed.

As stated above, if you use JASO MA rated oil in your KLR, as specified in the owners manual (viscosity and LEVEL), you can be assured you will not experience any oil related issues.

Also note there is JASO MB, which is for non-motorcycle engines.
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post #19 of 49 Old 04-11-2020, 06:49 AM
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I have always ran the less expensive oils and changed them too often.
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post #20 of 49 Old 04-11-2020, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by R/L View Post

... just because a particular oil does not have a JASO rating it does not necessarily mean the oil does not meet the JASO requirements.
Good point!

But sometimes it's difficult to know if a particular oil does not meet JASO or if it meets JASO but is not "certified".

Jason
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