Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum - Reply to Topic
KLR & Other Motorcycle Related Discussion Grab a seat and discuss whatever you like about the KLR or other related topics. Within reason.

Thread: Starting after a few months storage Reply to Thread
Title:
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-20-2019 10:55 PM
Jettn Jim I also prefer a manual petcock and have ran one for over 70,000 miles. It's a custom Yamaha configuration I played with back in 2011.
03-20-2019 10:53 PM
Jettn Jim I put in Star Brite StarTron and fire the girls up when I get a chance. No problems with the bikes and their fuel for years.
Without it... it's a carb cleaning after a couple months sitting with these ethanol fuels.
It's the best fuel additive going.
03-19-2019 11:14 AM
DPelletier Paul,

Yes, I'm aware that it's an EPA thing......yet another compromise unfortunately. regarding the vacuum petcock; I'm aware of both your opinion and your luck with the stock petcock but as you know, petcock failure is an exceedingly common problem - you don't have to spend too many years on these forums to see that....and, of course, EM wouldn't have a market for the manual ones if people weren't interested in swapping. I'd suggest that ethanol is far more of a problem if a bike sits for any period of time - if run regularly, it appears to be fine according to many (yourself and GoMotor for eg.)

I may try to source a bowl with the stand pipe as I believe that's the ultimate insurance.

Cheers,
Dave
03-18-2019 09:10 PM
pdwestman
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
It's a matter of risk managment IMO. In order to dump fuel into the engine, you need to forget to turn a manual petcock on and off and you need a float valve problem. (If Kawi had put a proper overflow tube in place, it'd be a non-issue). I'm also not sure that the bike will drain fuel into the cylinder unless it's sitting just right. The flip side is that the vacuum petcock isn't ethanol compatible and is a fairly regular failure point - even Kawi added the little filter at the carb, presumeably to address this......though just making a new, ethanol proof diaphragm would seem to be a better fix. I see the possibility of hydrolocking the cyl with fuel but I doubt it's a common thing.

Paul, you mentioned once a CVK float bowl that has the overflow tube in it; retrofitting that might add staples to the belt and suspenders!

YMMV,

Dave
The USA EPA is who required the removal of the float bowl overflow pipes from street legal motorcycle carburetors. It not just a Kawasaki thing.

The carburetor and intake port are angled slightly forward. Slightly over-flowing fuel will tend to seep out thru the pilot mixture screw and the 3 low speed pilot outlets under the edge of the throttle plate before it seeps out of the pilot air or main air jets in the throat of the intake bell mouth of the carb.
Even setting on a center stand, I believe the carb is angled 'down-hill'.

In 32 years of dealing with KLR650 vacuum operated fuel taps, I have Never seen any parts of the fuel tap vacuum diaphragm or its sealing o-ring jammed in the carburetor float needle.
I have seen plenty of crumbs from the selector discs. Even more crumbs from the selector discs used on the manual fuel taps of the seasonally used ATV's.

There is currently only one fuel station in this town which sells a non-ethanol #91 premium priced, premium grade fuel. So even I have used many hundreds of gallons of ethanol laced #87 gasoline thru my personal KLR650 in the past 20 years.

It is a mystery to me how that 'tiny little duck-bill screen fuel filter' in the 2011 & up permanent fuel inlet nipples can flow enough fuel to allow 35-40 mpg at 90 mph in a head wind and some of the larger in-line fuel filters might not!

Mark Gardiner & Ian Hopkin on one or two of the KLR FB groups said that the KLR600, 650-A & 650-C models in the UK had overflow stand pipes in the float bowls.
03-18-2019 05:58 PM
Voyager
Quote:
Originally Posted by DPelletier View Post
My fuel gauge; always works ;-)




Dave
Yes, hard to beat that! Just like the glass tube or cork bobber in the old airplanes.
03-18-2019 05:57 PM
Voyager
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
Many people have wished for a fuel gauge on the KLR.

I absolutely hate most motorcycle fuel gauges, be they on carbureted or fuel injected bikes because most of them start flashing their "LOW FUEL" warning with 1 - 1.5 gallons of fuel remaining. Due to the odd shapes of most motorcycle fuel tanks, most of the fuel gauges are Wildly in-accurate, side stand vs rolling, up-grade vs down grade.
I'd rather have a manual reserve of reasonable quantity, even on under seat fuel tank, fuel pump equipped motorcycles, atvs, side x sides. (But that ain't gonna' happen.)

Therefore I for one have always appreciated a one gallon reserve on street legal bikes, Tom.
My BMW flashes with about 1.2 gallons left. The fuel gauge and the DTE function of the trip computer are uncannily accurate. I have only run it out one time, but it died within 2 miles of what the DTE had been saying on average and the last bar of the LCD display had just went out before the engine died. I ran it down to the last LCD bar one time before (the display has very small bars, I would guess at least 50 between empty and full) and it took 6.15 gallons to fill the 6.2 gallon tank so I would say it is pretty darn accurate. When it says you have 14 miles to empty, it ainít kidding.

I much prefer an accurate fuel gauge to the reserve petcock, but I can live with either.
03-18-2019 04:12 PM
DPelletier
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
I've recently read that the Suzuki DR650 uses a vacuum operated petcock which does have a 'Prime' position instead of the 'Off' position and will fit the KLR650.
And the 'On' stand pipe is taller than the Yamaha Raptor manual petcock, so as to give a little more reasonable reserve range.

Numerous older Kawasaki models used the 'Prime' position petcocks, I don't recall which models. But even a 'Prime' position petcock can accidentally be left On Prime and can then allow a drippy float needle to flood the cylinder & crankcase with gasoline.

In my 10 years of involvement on KLR650 internet forums I've seen numerous KLR pistons which became fairly sudden oil burners, which upon tear-down had broken ring lands. Many people always suggest detonation to be the probable cause, but I have never seen any evidence of detonation on any of the piston crowns which could be seen in their supplied pics.
I therefore suggest that an equally possible cause of broken ring lands is from hydro-locking of the piston against a partially flooded cylinder.
I believe that this is part of the reasoning that Kawasaki mostly dis-continued the use of 'Prime' position petcocks. And it is the reason that I dis-courage the use of manual petcocks.

It's a matter of risk managment IMO. In order to dump fuel into the engine, you need to forget to turn a manual petcock on and off and you need a float valve problem. (If Kawi had put a proper overflow tube in place, it'd be a non-issue). I'm also not sure that the bike will drain fuel into the cylinder unless it's sitting just right. The flip side is that the vacuum petcock isn't ethanol compatible and is a fairly regular failure point - even Kawi added the little filter at the carb, presumeably to address this......though just making a new, ethanol proof diaphragm would seem to be a better fix. I see the possibility of hydrolocking the cyl with fuel but I doubt it's a common thing.

Seeing as how the vast majority of my 41 bikes have had manual petcocks, I've become pretty accustomed to turning them on and off as necessary and believe that the Yamaha petcock replacement has simplified and improved my KLR's......combined with my IMS tank (and gas cap), I believe I've eliminated several of the common KLR problem areas.

Paul, you mentioned once a CVK float bowl that has the overflow tube in it; retrofitting that might add staples to the belt and suspenders!

YMMV,

Dave
03-18-2019 03:59 PM
DPelletier
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
Many people have wished for a fuel gauge on the KLR.

.
My fuel gauge; always works ;-)




Dave
03-18-2019 03:57 PM
DPelletier
Quote:
Originally Posted by Damocles View Post
Following notion has no experiential nor reference basis:

I think the "PRIME" positions on fuel systems so configured merely provide raw fuel to the carburetor venturi when activated; absent the greater finesse of the KLR's starting enricher, a component mixing BOTH air and fuel, as described in pictures and text above. I'd imagine a combustible mixture upon starting more likely from the KLR starting enricher, than from a prime-type system in that position.

Maybe not. Maybe my perception is never fulfilled, or only sometimes valid.
the petcock has no way of affecting the carb other than allowing fuel to flow; prime just allows fuel to flow without the engine cranking/running (or vacuum source)

Dave
03-18-2019 03:23 PM
Damocles
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyager View Post
Iím with you 100% on keeping the vacuum petcock. I also agree that having a prime position is problematic. I was suggesting a normally closed push button primer. It would only prime if held in and would spring back to its normally closed position as soon as finger pressure was released. The only way to flood the engine would be to hold it open for a long time with a stuck float. Seems an unlikely confluence of circumstances.
Following notion has no experiential nor reference basis:

I think the "PRIME" positions on fuel systems so configured merely provide raw fuel to the carburetor venturi when activated; absent the greater finesse of the KLR's starting enricher, a component mixing BOTH air and fuel, as described in pictures and text above. I'd imagine a combustible mixture upon starting more likely from the KLR starting enricher, than from a prime-type system in that position.

Maybe not. Maybe my perception is never fulfilled, or only sometimes valid.
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome