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  Topic Review (Newest First)
06-08-2012 01:31 PM
LoneRider I hear you, steferf! Thanks for sharing your "druthers."

Unfortunately for your preference, I fear automatic transmissions for automobiles have "caught on."

Also . . . the only ATV's with manual clutches linking their drivetrains to their engines are "sport," or "racing" models; even the "manual" utlity ATV's use centrifugal primary auto-clutches (not unlike the Rekluse in operation).
06-08-2012 12:17 PM
steferf
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneRider View Post
What is your reaction to driving automobiles, or other highway vehicles, with AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS, steferf?

Are you offended/disappointed by automatic transmissions in 4-wheel, street-legal, passenger vehicles, also? If so, why? Also, why does a CVT ATV annoy you?

And, kinda wonder; do you find an auto-clutch, like a Rekluse, similarly distasteful (as a CVT)?

No value judgment, no offense; just curious and askin'.
I have very limited experience driving a standard transmission car. I probably only drive a car about once a year anyways, so really I have no preference there.

I don't like the cvt because it doesn't feel right. The whole dynamic gear ratio thing means that what I am hearing doesn't intuitively match how fast I am going.

Secondly, it makes driving too simple to be interesting. (FWIW, the atv I speak of has an auto clutch of some sort). There wasn't a learning curve to drive the ATV. Get on and ride. Really no challenge to driving it. A motorcycle takes all four limbs working in harmony to control the thing, the atv I speak of only requires one limb. (perhaps two if you need to brake, but most braking is engine braking)

I understand that some people view all these driving simplification features as a positive benefit, but personally it doesn't excite me as much. I guess the best way to put it is that it doesn't bother me...I just find it boring.

As an example, I'd prefer to ride my KLR over the ATV even though I've logged thousands of Motorcycle miles and probably less than 20 ATV miles. That is just my personal preference.

The only real benefit I find is that I can tow a trailer with the ATV. It helps get stuff done.
06-08-2012 07:31 AM
LoneRider
Quote:
Originally Posted by steferf View Post
My parents ATV has a cvt and it annoys me.

30 seconds into my first ride, I was thinking, "Is that it?"
What is your reaction to driving automobiles, or other highway vehicles, with AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSIONS, steferf?

Are you offended/disappointed by automatic transmissions in 4-wheel, street-legal, passenger vehicles, also? If so, why? Also, why does a CVT ATV annoy you?

And, kinda wonder; do you find an auto-clutch, like a Rekluse, similarly distasteful (as a CVT)?

No value judgment, no offense; just curious and askin'.
06-07-2012 10:08 PM
steferf
Quote:
Originally Posted by PHBiker View Post
This thread is becoming oddly familiar. My last undergraduate final in "Production and Operations Management" addressed the concept of a hybrid motorcycle. Rather than share my instructor's dillusion, I discussed the possibility of high-efficiency diesel motorcycles with better aerodynamics. Reality is a bitch, I lost 5% of my overall score. Anyone think they could build a hybrid motorcycle that would sell? Keep in mind that you all ride 650cc dirtbikes that wouldn't get 50mph coasting downhill.
I've found all sorts of professors like that. If what you say doesn't align with their agenda, they doc you points. The prof is a university professor of business...there is probably a good chance s/he has never done anything in industry. I'll say this - I've worked with too many professors who are off in academic la la land.

One thing about the KLR that I like is that I can do all the maintenance on it. I feel like once you add a electric motor it'll become that much more difficult to maintain.

Plus how do you do regenerative breaking on a motorcycle? I'm not all too familiar with how it is done on a car, but I'd assume you'd either have to stick a generator on each wheel, or transfer mechanical energy to the body (which I think yamaha managed to do in the mid 200's with a 2 wheel drive motorcycle).

Then there is the fact that motor cycles get like 50 miles a gallon...why fix something that ain't broken? ...but if you were to fix it, I'm with you on the diesel thing.
06-07-2012 09:46 PM
steferf
Quote:
Originally Posted by planalp View Post
I wouldn't care if a hydro drive KLR had twice the torque and speed. I'd still pass it up for a geared transmission model. It's just part of the experience of riding.
My parents ATV has a cvt and it annoys me.

30 seconds into my first ride, I was thinking, "Is that it?"
05-27-2012 04:00 AM
LoneRider
Quote:
Originally Posted by planalp View Post
I'd say the DN-01 was the closest I've seen that was a feasible offering. It seems like Honda did a good job with the hydro drive, but the machine wasn't readily accepted as a complete package.
My guess, Honda did not consider the DN-01 economically worth its manufacturing/support/marketing effort. Further guessing, I'd expect rate-of-return issues surfaced; i.e., for the same or less effort and resource dedication, lots more conventionally-driven motorcycles could be sold with an overall more favorable return on investment.

On the AWD (all-wheel drive) front, Christini has a race-proven scheme going, and the price is right. A street-legal 450 cc AWD dual sport is available at a price close to that of a KLR650.

Largely made-in-China, but . . . what, today, isn't? No, I'm not happy with the situation, but--reality sometimes intrudes, displacing our preferences.
05-27-2012 01:25 AM
planalp I don't know. I know the street bike featured in my above post is kind of a "homemade" deal, but to me, it seems big on technology, but lacking in performance based on the videos of it they've made available. It doesn't seem to show great acceleration or even operate at speeds above 60mph and that seems kind of weird. You'd think if it was a kick-ass machine, they'd show a helmet cam view of the thing ripping down the slab at higher speeds.

Not to mention, it seems like a complicated mess that I'm sure would be a high-cost nightmare to maintain and repair. All that crap about push-button "pump displacement switches" seems counter-intuitive to the basic appeal of a drive system like this which is kind of a mindless "the further you push the pedal or twist the throttle, the faster you go" kind of deal.

I am, however, impressed with the bare-bones utility-type 2x2 "Racoon" machine and also the Honda DN-01 that LoneRider made me aware of.

I'd say the DN-01 was the closest I've seen that was a feasible offering. It seems like Honda did a good job with the hydro drive, but the machine wasn't readily accepted as a complete package.



05-26-2012 08:22 PM
flash
Quote:
Originally Posted by planalp View Post

I mean, who wants to ride a whining (or even relatively silent)motorcycle.....

Electric bikes,

http://www.zeromotorcycles.com/

I would be interested in test riding one of these and possibly using it as a commuter. But, at the prices they are asking I'd never justify the cost.
05-26-2012 04:59 PM
PHBiker This thread is becoming oddly familiar. My last undergraduate final in "Production and Operations Management" addressed the concept of a hybrid motorcycle. Rather than share my instructor's dillusion, I discussed the possibility of high-efficiency diesel motorcycles with better aerodynamics. Reality is a bitch, I lost 5% of my overall score. Anyone think they could build a hybrid motorcycle that would sell? Keep in mind that you all ride 650cc dirtbikes that wouldn't get 50mph coasting downhill.
05-26-2012 11:35 AM
planalp http://hydraulicspneumatics.com/200/...ydraulicPumpsM

Okay, now I want an air-activated center stand.



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