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Thread: Sheared oil bolt in sump. How to get it out? Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
09-12-2012 09:51 PM
LoneRider
Quote:
Originally Posted by troutbum33 View Post
Yeah I'll be fishing for a while.

A question about drilling for an oversize drain plug, which is a really attractive option.

The case has to be thicker for a certain area around where the drain plug hole is to allow for the depth of bolt? Anyone know how wide across the bottom of the case that thickened area is?

I don't want to start drilling a larger hole and find out I've drilled the edges to the thin section of case?
Ain't no thang, IMHO! If you do approach the thin edge, you might consider an insert (q.v., TimeSert, Heli-Coil, etc., described here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threaded_insert ).

The drain plug ordinarily is under very little mechanical stress; has only to seal the sump at atmospheric pressure; I'd imagine you will have plenty of case meat left for adequate thread purchase after you drill a hole big enough for the old oil drain plug segment to be evacuated.

But . . . please consult with someone familiar with drilling and tapping before you embark upon this fishing expedition. Chances are, a decent garage or automotive machine shop has all the equipment and expertise available for this rescue mission on hand, including the welding equipment in the worst-case scenario where you must build up the cases for drilling and tapping for the replacement oil drain plug.

Hope the job's as simple as; drill hole, remove plug remnant, tap (thread) hole for replacement oil drain plug, insert oil drain plug, ride!
09-12-2012 06:21 PM
troutbum33 Yeah I'll be fishing for a while.

A question about drilling for an oversize drain plug, which is a really attractive option.

The case has to be thicker for a certain area around where the drain plug hole is to allow for the depth of bolt? Anyone know how wide across the bottom of the case that thickened area is?

I don't want to start drilling a larger hole and find out I've drilled the edges to the thin section of case?
09-11-2012 10:10 AM
willys No offence but I would be fishing untill I either got it out or knew for sure it had connected to something metal before going to those two extremes IMHO....splitting the cases is a huge job, something even I haven't had the pleasure of needing to do yet and also drilling a sump to get a piece out is a huge job to repair the hole that you make...IMHO.

As stated above, ain't my bike either so it's up to him and I would be sweating bullets untill I got that piece out for sure!!!
09-11-2012 09:26 AM
LoneRider
Quote:
Originally Posted by 650Stew View Post
I'm just wondering how far that magnet has migrated already... Especially if the bike has been moved. Very expensive "oops!"
The OP can clarify, but . . . my assumption/understanding, the remnant of the oil drain plug shaft rests at the bottom of the crankcase, just inside the oil drain hole . . .

Since the case metal is non-magnetic, the magnet of the plug is of no issue, given the fragment's assumed repose position.

Aligning the fragment with the existing threads, from the outside of the hole, appears impossible. The hole is too small in diameter to remove the plug segment at this time.

Thus, I suggest ENLARGING the hole, drilling it out to a size where the segment can be evacuated downward through the now-larger oil drain hole.

Then, the new, larger-diameter hole can be threaded with an appropriate tap for a larger-diameter drain plug (they're commonly available in incremental sizes, metric and SAE, up to 19 mm (vs. stock 12 mm), perhaps even larger).

I'd think a 19 mm diameter hole, maybe even a smaller one, large enough to evacuate a segment of a 12 mm drain plug.

Yet; ain't MY bike! Tear her down and split the cases, if that's the preferred technique!
09-11-2012 09:01 AM
willys The way I understand it is that he has some burrs in the threads and they sngged the plug and then snapped it off halfway, then when trying to drill it out to get the remaining part out with an easyout the drill caught the remaining part and just continued to thread it in untill it went all the way in. This is where he is now. All he needs to do with the oil drain hole is clean the threads up unless they are stripped near the outer side of the hole. BUT even if they are and the inner threads are still intake he could sill use the original sized hole just be carefull when retapping to clean the thread out.
I agree with stew, if the magnet has had or has to ability to roll around it will or has already stuck to a piece of metal. The best way is to get a good flashlight and peep as best you can up into the hole ans ee if you can see it. Then start the worrying if you can see it stuck to a gear or something metal. If you can't see it I would expect it to hopefully be still sitting in the sump and he needs to go fishing with a metal wire and hope that the magnet sticks to that and nothing else. If he uses another magnet the two may repell each other and shoot the magnet up into the tranny gears. A semi thick wire would be my tool of choice to start with. Now if he can see it, I would take a trip to a habour frieght type store or medical store and see how thin a good set of pinchers are and see if you could get them up the oil drain hole and clamp onto or atleast get the magnet off the gear and try fishing again. I would take days to get that magent out before splitting the cases. It won't be cheap splitting the cases if he takes it to a dealer or shop. If he can find someone like me who works for half the cost of the dealers he will be better off for sure $$$wise.
Between a rock and a hard place I'm afraid.....good luck.
09-11-2012 08:04 AM
650Stew
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneRider View Post
Why NOT drill out the oil drain hole, remove the shaft remnant, then re-tap the hole for a larger oil drain plug?

What does "your man John" say about that approach?

No, I've never done this, or even seen it done.

However, I HAVE seen cases broken by rock strikes, then re-welded.

Why is the bore-out, evacuate plug remnant, then re-thread for larger-diameter plug, solution unsatisfactory/unworkable?

A number of "repair" oil drain plugs exist, that could be used even without tapping the larger hole drilled to remove the broken-off plug sement, such as the rubber expandable plug, such as used to close sump drain holes of small boats (flipping a lever expands the rubber circumference), or the "flapper" type plug, using a threaded toggle inside the crankcase for its tightening shaft.

Ideal? No, but workable, if threading the larger hole and replacing the plug with a larger-diameter one is somehow not workable. At least, less than $ 700 labor is involved.
I'm just wondering how far that magnet has migrated already... Especially if the bike has been moved. Very expensive "oops!"
09-11-2012 03:29 AM
LoneRider Why NOT drill out the oil drain hole, remove the shaft remnant, then re-tap the hole for a larger oil drain plug?

What does "your man John" say about that approach?

No, I've never done this, or even seen it done.

However, I HAVE seen cases broken by rock strikes, then re-welded.

Why is the bore-out, evacuate plug remnant, then re-thread for larger-diameter plug, solution unsatisfactory/unworkable?

A number of "repair" oil drain plugs exist, that could be used even without tapping the larger hole drilled to remove the broken-off plug sement, such as the rubber expandable plug, such as used to close sump drain holes of small boats (flipping a lever expands the rubber circumference), or the "flapper" type plug, using a threaded toggle inside the crankcase for its tightening shaft.

Ideal? No, but workable, if threading the larger hole and replacing the plug with a larger-diameter one is somehow not workable. At least, less than $ 700 labor is involved.
09-10-2012 11:09 PM
650Stew I think Willy's idea of getting it out on the left side (doohickey side) of the bike is probably the best bet. It would involve pulling the covers and rotor but it would certainly not be $700 in labor... I can't think of any other way you would get it out, definitely not through the oil filler hole as the clutch basket is right there. I would get someone experienced to help you with it, or do the work though... Definitely wouldn't want to cause more damage than has already been done...

Edit: Though I gotta say, if the bikes been moved at all since the bolt broke, the magnet has more than likely already rolled to a piece of metal and attached itself firmly... Especially if it's a rare earth magnet. In that case it would definitely be case splitting time. Sorry I can't be of more help
09-10-2012 10:04 PM
troutbum33
Happy trails professional prognosis

Well first there were a few heartfelt "i'm really sorry's" from my man John at Happy Trail.

His bottom line, we're going to have to tear it all down and split the case to remove your bolt from the sump. $700 minimum labor, not counting all the gaskets and everything, and whatever else we may find.

I asked him about my chance of lucking out and getting at it with a mighty worm magnet. He said my only chance is the right side.

I need everything you guys can tell me about getting into the sump, every possible avenue. Every idea to get this bolt shaft out without complete disassembly.

Thanks in advance,

T33
09-10-2012 09:10 AM
willys It would be much better IF the cases were steel, it could just live there and wouldn't be prone to moving around looking for a new place to live like it will now....bug is correct.

As soon as the hot fluid is in there moving around it will wash the magnet to the first piece of large steel and it will clamp onto it and I would bet it'll be tranny gears.....total distruction if not a complete lock up resulting in a crash or worse.

It has to come out...plain and simple......small bits of steel could ne chewed up in the best case synario by the tranny but a lump of a magnet I would dobt it...may happen but I wouldn't want to bet my life on it.
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