Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum - Reply to Topic
How To's & Tech Guides Post your mod how to's and tech guides here. Topics will be locked only to allow editing by original author.

Thread: Low Oil Pressure light installation Reply to Thread
Title:
Message:
Trackback:
Send Trackbacks to (Separate multiple URLs with spaces) :
Post Icons
You may choose an icon for your message from the following list:
 

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Kawasaki KLR 650 Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










  Additional Options
Miscellaneous Options

  Topic Review (Newest First)
01-20-2020 10:41 AM
pdwestman
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwstx View Post
the KLR 650 bottom end is roller bearing just like the old 900 Z 4cyl. They normally ran 10-15 psi at road speed and about 5psi at idle. Might be a good idea to service the OP switch and the correct wattage bulb from those older part numbers. jwstx
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwstx View Post
PDWESTMAN I noticed you mentioned Ninja and 15 psi max oil pressure. Is the NINJA a roller bearing crank low pressure system like the KLR 650s.? Would like to see your earlier articles on the installation. My KLR is a 2005,and today as I was changing oil and filter noticed a Not Used blue window at the end of the led screen. I then began to look for the Oil Pressure light which I did not find after 15 years. Duh. I think I would like to mount a sensor. jwstx
Sorry about that, jwstx.

I see today that I missed reading your second posting from Yesterday, oops.

To the best of my knowledge all of the Ninja family engines use precision bearing crankshafts, You can check that out by going to parts screens, such as this,
https://www.kawasakipartshouse.com/o...98a/crankshaft
This company does not go clear back to the 1st Ninja, 1984 ZX900-A1 like I owned. But even it was a precision bearing engine.

Here is my original work on improving the KLR oiling system, I'll start you in the middle with pics and then you can go forward for more pics. Before going back to the beginning.
Tom Schmitz converted my spread sheets to graphs somewhere between there. There are more pics starting at #410.
https://www.klrforum.com/255073-post100.html

I'll suggest that Where the oil pressure is tested is more important than the actual pressure.

Toms 'souperdoo' site has a video of his 5 gauge test set. Which he built while following my mods.
https://www.souperdoo.com/stuff%20th...ht-oil-burning
01-20-2020 09:49 AM
Damocles DISCLAIMER: Meaningless anecdote follows.

Saw a 'way cool instrumented Harley parked at the local Cycle Gear; had oil pressure gauge and oil temperature gauge installed.

wonderin' . . . anyone ever consider mounting a coolant temperature idiot light on a KLR? (None applied to the air-cooled Hog.)

CAUTION: Humorous (?) irrelevant anecdote next:

KTMs have low oil-pressure dashboard indicators. On a KTM website post, a KTM owner was complaining/worried because his low oil-pressure light came on when he first turned on the ignition . . .

(No, I offered no tutorial to the poster! )
01-19-2020 05:56 PM
pdwestman
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwstx View Post
the KLR 650 bottom end is roller bearing just like the old 900 Z 4cyl. They normally ran 10-15 psi at road speed and about 5psi at idle. Might be a good idea to service the OP switch and the correct wattage bulb from those older part numbers. jwstx
Say What??

Are you actually riding a KLR650 of any model yet, jwstx?

As NONE of the KLR650 models, A, B, C or E ever had an Oil Pressure Switch or Light to even check.

And the Z1 900 carried about 4 psi of hot oil pressure at about 4000 rpm with 20W50.

https://www.klrforum.com/137857-post38.html


Click on the 'Title' after reading the single posting to read the entire thread. Some pics start on page 10 & few more on page 38 and the best on page 41 & 42.
01-19-2020 05:47 PM
jwstx PDWESTMAN I noticed you mentioned Ninja and 15 psi max oil pressure. Is the NINJA a roller bearing crank low pressure system like the KLR 650s.? Would like to see your earlier articles on the installation. My KLR is a 2005,and today as I was changing oil and filter noticed a Not Used blue window at the end of the led screen. I then began to look for the Oil Pressure light which I did not find after 15 years. Duh. I think I would like to mount a sensor. jwstx
01-19-2020 05:22 PM
jwstx the KLR 650 bottom end is roller bearing just like the old 900 Z 4cyl. They normally ran 10-15 psi at road speed and about 5psi at idle. Might be a good idea to service the OP switch and the correct wattage bulb from those older part numbers. jwstx
01-08-2016 12:40 PM
Normk I thought that I had posted regarding the 1/8 NPT versus the 1/8" BSP recently but might have been another bike or car group.

We used to install 1/8" NPT fittings into Japanese cars on a routine basis in the 1970's and 1980's in order to install warning lights + gauges. The thread pitch is one thread per inch difference between the two NPT- 27 versus BSP 28 threads per inch & the BSP used on Japanese applications generally starts with a smaller diameter. This means that a BSP will usually start readily into a NPT hole but a tap is sometimes needed to enlarge the BSP hole to accommodate the NPT.

BSP has a tapered thread while the thread to which Tom refers is BSPP (British Standard Pipe Parallel) this is not common in tap and die sets so isn't usually a concern. IME, the BSPP is less compatible with the other two than they are with each other.

I agree that wedging BSP and NPT likely isn't ideal for nuke subs but perhaps, given Canada's experience with British submarines, it might actually help.

I've not encountered sealing problems when using the fittings with the other's threads but can recall only using with steel, aluminum, and brass male threads into cast iron, steel, aluminum and brass. I avoid using aluminum into anything if possible and never aluminum into aluminum. When threading into case iron, brass or malleable steel seem OK but use sealer. In these applications I do the same regardless of whether am matching thread types. I haven't used stainless when combining NPT and BSP because of the galling and seizure issues often encountered with stainless.
01-08-2016 11:17 AM
Tom Schmitz
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdwestman View Post
...The Kawasaki 27010-1313 oil light switch has just a 'smidgeon' different thread pitch than 1/8th inch, NPT 27....
Paul,

For others who might consider this, yet be put off by the idea of the different threads, a clarification.

The British standard comes in two forms. There is a straight thread and a taper thread.

The straight thread is what I found on my temperature sensor that goes in the Thermo-Bob 3. It works like half a banjo bolt, sealing on a single soft aluminum washer. I think that the straight-thread BSP is pretty common for stuff like this, at least it is what Trail Tech uses.

The taper thread works the same as our pipe threads. Finding British taper thread fittings is not easy, especially in the style that would be useful in this application. Adapters from NPT to BSP are readily available, but they add a lot of bulk.

I found that the Ninja switch just wouldn't fit at the cam fitting for the reasons you outlined. I decided that mounting the switch remotely would work, so I mounted it up under the cowling on my Gen 2.

The BSP switch is threaded directly into a 1/8" NPT fitting and, even though there is a difference in thread pitch, I noticed no difference in assembly from what I would expect if the threads matched. There has been no leakage at all at pressures up to 15psi.

I wouldn't recommend it at high pressure in a nuclear submarine installation, but it is a 'not to worry' thing in this application.

The Ninja switch plumbed to the cam banjo is a good idea for the reasons you mentioned.
Tom
01-07-2016 04:00 PM
pdwestman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Normk View Post
I wish that we knew more about the pumping effect of the crankshaft. ------------

I'm wondering if the crankshaft effect might, in fact, create a reverse flow under conditions in which the oil pump stopped supplying oil? Might it be "pulling" air down from the cam bearings and so completely starving the cams for a short time = time enough to cook them?

-------- since we already know that the only condition which seems to kill them is out of oil.
Normk,
I don't quite follow that thought.
If the oil pump gears stripped, it would be exactly the same consequence as losing a drain plug at speed or busting a case on a rock and failing to look/observe the possible damage or burning thru 2.25qt/liter of engine oil.

All 3 instances lead to destroyed cams and cylinder head, just at different rates. And possibly even more parts. I believe I have listed the failures from fastest to slowest and from possibly totaled to probably rebuildable.
01-06-2016 02:22 PM
Normk I wish that we knew more about the pumping effect of the crankshaft. The idea seems so intuitively appealing that I begin to distrust it. After all, our brains evolved to avoid lions on the African plains and not to understand hydraulics = so many wrong concepts based on common sense. :-)

I'm wondering if the crankshaft effect might, in fact, create a reverse flow under conditions in which the oil pump stopped supplying oil? Might it be "pulling" air down from the cam bearings and so completely starving the cams for a short time = time enough to cook them?

In that case, your restrictor might help in that event also?

If were more ambitious it would be interesting to try some experiments but don't see the utility ((lazy) since we already know that the only condition which seems to kill them is out of oil.
01-06-2016 01:41 PM
pdwestman
Quote:
Originally Posted by Normk View Post
I think the Ninja warning light is into the banjo bolt in the crankcase rather than into the head?

The utility of using a warning light comes into question, IMO, because there is only a low/not enough oil failure pattern for the KLR. I wonder whether (picking the measured number) 1.75 PSI at the head banjo would be reflective of enough oil flow to the cams at higher RPM since the reports I hear about low oil level failures have been at speed?

Perhaps someone recalls the pressure measurements from Paul's and Tom's tests and can respond?
#1, That is correct. It would be like the 1st banjo bolt next to the KLR starter motor.

#2, The camshafts and everything else will have oil flow until about the last 16-24 ounces of oil are left in the sump. I would assume that the oil light would then start 'flickering' when the Volume supplied to the cams could no longer Fill the hollow cams. Even at 7000 rpm.

You do remember that my engine survived with basically 'Zero' pressure to the cams at any rpm due to a machining chip in the first banjo bolt. All they really need is 'some continuous flow'.

The crankshaft is still capable of 'sucking the oil filter Dry'.

#3, May I suggest that one make a paper copy to hang on the wall.
http://www.klrforum.com/433001-post9.html
This thread has more than 10 replies. Click here to review the whole thread.

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome